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beejmi
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Put me down for Mariah Carey. Looks good that's about it.

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Good one. She is bad. Her voice is very annoying to me.

Last edited on Sun Feb 10th, 2019 03:45 pm by Papa Voo

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Red Hot Chili Peppers. Hot garbage.

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The Doors. Second-rate pale Animals imitators with sixth-form poetry.

Radiohead. Extended unlistenable whinges but music critics are too frightened to point out the emperor is naked.

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U2...sanctimonious hogwash. I honestly believe that if Thin Lizzy hadn't broke up and Phil died a few years later that U2 would be thought of along the same lines as The Hooters. There was an opening for an Irish band, and these guys were in the right place at the right time.

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victhestick wrote: Red Hot Chili Peppers. Hot garbage.
"I'm forever near a stereo saying, 'What the fuck is this garbage?' And the answer is always the Red Hot Chili Peppers." - Nick Cave.

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These are popular, but are they rated? I'm not sure anyone thinks U2 are really groundbreakers, and Carey's voice may be technically excellent, but nobody really thinks it's outstanding because it lacks distinction.

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For the casuals, it's KISS. They have like 37 different greatest hits albums, all are basically the same, all of them suck because they can't play. For marketing, I'll give them an A+. As a band, I'll give them an F. Eric Carr was the most talented member of the group and he was only with them after Peter Criss got screwed over by no-talent prick Gene Simmons.

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KISS might be the answer when you use the correct definition of “overrated”. There’s a generation of people out there that consider them their Beatles, the reason they listen to music, the reason every band after them exists. And musically they’re awful but even in the areas where you have to give them some credit like stage shows, overrated is definitely the word.

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Rush

This willl have people going in defense mode. 

Last edited on Sun Feb 10th, 2019 11:41 pm by Papa Voo

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Maroon 5, lol.

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For me it’s Guns and Roses.  I know lots of people will disagree but I think they suck.  

Last edited on Mon Feb 11th, 2019 01:00 am by gwlee7

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I was a fan of Kiss when I was a little kid but then I grew up. And Gene Simmons is one of the biggest D Bags. He has admitted he cares more about the money than the music. It's pretty hard to get behind that.

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Nirvana.

Garbage sounds that will make your ears bleed.

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Pink Floyd IMHO.

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victhestick wrote: Red Hot Chili Peppers. Hot garbage.You're insane.

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kargol wrote: The Doors. 
You're insane.

Last edited on Mon Feb 11th, 2019 03:29 am by Heenan Fan

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gwlee7 wrote: For me it’s Guns and Roses.  I know lots of people will disagree but I think they suck.  You're insane.

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katook wrote: Nirvana.

Garbage sounds that will make your ears bleed.
You're insane.

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LarrySC wrote: Pink Floyd IMHO.You are most definitely insane!

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Angelic Assassin wrote:
Maroon 5, lol.
You're NOT insane.

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beejmi wrote: Put me down for Mariah Carey. Looks good that's about it.Nobody with an IQ over 80 listens to pop though.

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Buddy Rich (Just checking to see if CM is lurking)

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Heenan Fan wrote: LarrySC wrote: Pink Floyd IMHO.You are most definitely insane!
C'mon Heenan fan! With the wealth of Bobby Heenan zingers out there that's all you got .Make some of these bitches cry, dammit! 😁😁😁

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Principal_Raditch wrote: Buddy Rich (Just checking to see if CM is lurking)
Buddy Rich is actually pretty awesome, but the fact that CM likes him makes him less so. 

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Add Led Zeppelin to the list, yes they had some good shit but for every one good there were 5 awful, unlistenable atrocities.

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The Grateful Dead. Could never get into them.

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Queen, and I think Freddie is one of the best vocalists of all time

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broke wrote: Queen, and I think Freddie is one of the best vocalists of all time
I love Queen but I’ll say this, all their hits are masterpieces and all their non-hits aren’t just unlistenable, they’re not even rock. This is not a band that has a lot of hidden gems. They have 25 amazing songs and maybe 125 awful ones. If someone tries to play a Queen deep cut that isn’t named “Ogre Battle”, run. 

Last edited on Tue Feb 12th, 2019 04:37 am by srossi

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katook wrote: Add Led Zeppelin to the list, yes they had some good shit but for every one good there were 5 awful, unlistenable atrocities.That's your wrong opinion. I tell what, name all these unlistenable atrocities, The good still out way the bad. Seriously, you honestly think Zeppelin is overrated?

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Spatulapup wrote: The Grateful Dead. Could never get into them.
I agree with this one. Cool guys, but their music sucked.

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Considering the criteria in the OP, this thread begins and ends with KISS, and it's not even close imho!

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srossi wrote: KISS might be the answer when you use the correct definition of “overrated”. There’s a generation of people out there that consider them their Beatles, the reason they listen to music, the reason every band after them exists. And musically they’re awful but even in the areas where you have to give them some credit like stage shows, overrated is definitely the word.

I'll start with the fact that I'm a KISS fan so I'm not the most objective...

There was a generation of Musician that followed that list KISS as their biggest influence.  Their stage shows were game changing, and Paul Stanley is one of the greatest frontmen of all time.

KISS is the Hulk Hogan of Music.  They put tons of asses in seats.  Were they technically as a good as other musicians, no.  Les Thornton could wrestle circles around Hogan, but no one said come watch Hogan vs. Andre at WMIII it's going to be a scientific wrestling spectacular.  I've never heard anyone say Gene is a virtuoso on the bass, but they pop like hell when he spits blood and breath fire.

Have they hung around too long?  Of course, but people will keep giving them a pay day.  Have they screwed over a ton of people along the way?   Absolutely. Are they completely full of shit?  No doubt.  Just like Hogan.  Are they the most recognizable faces of their era?  No question.


I don't think you can say they are overrated because no one rates them as top notch musicians.  That's like saying Tom Brady is overrated at football because he sucks at tackling and blocking.  They are highly rated as stage performers and that is a fair ranking.

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Heenan Fan wrote: katook wrote: Add Led Zeppelin to the list, yes they had some good shit but for every one good there were 5 awful, unlistenable atrocities.That's your wrong opinion. I tell what, name all these unlistenable atrocities, The good still out way the bad. Seriously, you honestly think Zeppelin is overrated?

I would agree with Katook. I think Zep is in the same vein of Queen- their hits are hits indeed, but the rest of their tracks are mostly forgotten for good reason: they stink

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srossi wrote: broke wrote: Queen, and I think Freddie is one of the best vocalists of all time
I love Queen but I’ll say this, all their hits are masterpieces and all their non-hits aren’t just unlistenable, they’re not even rock. This is not a band that has a lot of hidden gems. They have 25 amazing songs and maybe 125 awful ones. If someone tries to play a Queen deep cut that isn’t named “Ogre Battle”, run. 


Their first album is a great 70s rock album, but this was before Freddie had any real influence on the band. Other than that, there are one or two album tracks that became popular in live sets such as Tie Your Mother Down and Spread Your Wings. But you are right, most of their albums are 2 or 3 great songs and 6 crap ones. If you watch Bohemian Rhapsody (the movie), you get a taste of why this was. They mostly wrote songs by themselves, and everyone got a couple of songs on each album. The great songs, everyone gave 100%, and you get what you got, their two albums of Greatest Hits. Then there is stuff like I'm In Love With My Car, which was a Roger Taylor song that Freddie didn't want anything to do with, and Taylor sings lead vocals. So, yeah, play Hot Space, and you'd wonder what all the fuss was about, but stick on a live album and they were fucking fantastic.

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Some strange answers here with Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd and Queen. I think even 5 all time classics take a band out of the overrated category, and these bands had more than that.

You could pick When I'm Sixty-Four and Wild Honey Pie claim the Beatles were overrated.

Maybe more one for the few Brits here, but I'll tell you who were overrated. Oasis and Blur. I loved them when I was 15, but it's just garbage now. I just didn't know any better.

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Kriss wrote: Some strange answers here with Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd and Queen. I think even 5 all time classics take a band out of the overrated category, and these bands had more than that.

You could pick When I'm Sixty-Four and Wild Honey Pie claim the Beatles were overrated.

Maybe more one for the few Brits here, but I'll tell you who were overrated. Oasis and Blur. I loved them when I was 15, but it's just garbage now. I just didn't know any better.

IMO if you're going to name overrated bands you might as well shoot for the stars.  Who rates Blur?  I barely know who they are.  And Oasis is known for one song and 100 fights.  Maybe it's a British thing. 

I love Zeppelin.  But they're fair game considering their plagiarism, although they re-worked those old blues songs to create something entirely different and innovative and awesome.  But to not give credit and pretend you never even heard of some of the songs you were lifting, that's just a dick move.  It was a different time before "sampling" was accepted and they didn't want to admit what they were doing, but that really was scummy, especially after they made millions and the bluesmen and their children were living in slums. 

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I wouldn't invest much time defending Blur, but I will say that Parklife is a brilliant album; I've always felt it was a worthy successor to The Kinks' Village Green Preservation Society.
Oasis... I was never a fan and don't own anything by them, but Johnny Marr seems to think they're all right and I wouldn't argue with him about music. 
Zeppelin??  Are you fucking kidding me?  I don't care how much of the first couple albums were ripped off.  As stated above, they reworked them in an original way.  And beyond that, they have song after song that are instantly recognizable and influential. 

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srossi wrote: Kriss wrote: Maybe more one for the few Brits here, but I'll tell you who were overrated. Oasis and Blur. I loved them when I was 15, but it's just garbage now. I just didn't know any better.
Who rates Blur?  I barely know who they are.  And Oasis is known for one song and 100 fights.  Maybe it's a British thing.


From 1994-1997, the entire British music scene, "Cool Britannia", was Oasis vs Blur.

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The Beatles were overrated. When I'm Sixty-Four and Ob-La-Di Oh-Bla-Da are nursery rhyme quality.

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Heenan Fan wrote: Considering the criteria in the OP, this thread begins and ends with KISS, and it's not even close imho!
Coincidentally I was listening to a podcast about rock philosophy.  Journalist was saying Gene Simmons never wants to discuss KISS in interviews because he is so bored with his own music and during the soundcheck she attended they were playing Peter & The Wolf.  He only wanted to talk mediaeval history and Mrs Kiss was checking facts on her iphone.

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Kriss wrote: srossi wrote: Kriss wrote: Maybe more one for the few Brits here, but I'll tell you who were overrated. Oasis and Blur. I loved them when I was 15, but it's just garbage now. I just didn't know any better.
Who rates Blur?  I barely know who they are.  And Oasis is known for one song and 100 fights.  Maybe it's a British thing.


From 1994-1997, the entire British music scene, "Cool Britannia", was Oasis vs Blur.

And the view at the time was Oasis were plagiarists and Blue bandwagon jumpers.
The view of Oasis now hasn't changed.  But Damon Albarn of Blur is considered something of a genius, because he has constantly switched gear with different projects (Gorillaz, The Good The Bad & The Queen, and the rumour is he wrote the fantastic Elastica debut album). 

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I've not heard any of The Good, The Bad & The Queen, but Gorillaz is pretty spotty. Some very interesting tunes, but a lot of dreck.

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Papa Voo wrote: Rush

This willl have people going in defense mode. 


I hate them as well 

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Janis Joplin. All of her hits were covers except for her final recording (which was released after her death), Mercedes-Benz. And that album mostly sold because of her death and Me and Bobby McGee (a cover) was on the same album. Her top five hits, Piece Of My Heart, Cry Baby, Down On Me, Ball & Chain, and Summertime were ALL covers! Not to mention she was a total junkie whore, and I honestly mean no disrespect when I say that because Janis Joplin's partying would of put 95% of her male peers to shame. She was cool, but her work was highly overrated.



Last edited on Sun Mar 17th, 2019 04:45 am by Heenan Fan

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Frank Zappa. I enjoy watching interviews with him because he was a well spoken smart guy. But his music is horrible. I have tried to give it a chance but I just can't stand it. I have watched live footage and I can't believe people would find it entertaining. Very cool guy though.

Last edited on Mon Jul 15th, 2019 01:25 am by Spatulapup

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I had a college roommate who was a major Deadhead, but I don't remember he ever played any of their music in our dorm even though he would played music by others (maybe he even knew it sucked).  There used to be a radio station that I listened to which would have a "Grateful Dead Hour." I gave it s shot a couple of time, but after that I just listened to my CD's instead.

The only Grateful Dead song I know is the one they used to play on MTV in the 80's.  Nice, catchy song, I guess....but the rest of their other stuff are just garbage.

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Spatulapup wrote: Frank Zappa. I enjoy watching interviews with him because he was a well spoken smart guy. But his music is horrible. I have tried to give it a chance but I just can't stand it. I have watched live footage and I can't believe people would find it entertaining. Very cool guy though.
I started listening to Frank Zappa in college only because he was different and that I was bored with what everyone was listening to.  I ended up having a huge Zappa CD (and some tape) collection (most of which are now lost).   I actually liked the way he experimented with different types of music, but I can understand why some people find it hard to listen to. 

Last edited on Mon Jul 15th, 2019 03:31 am by Dr. Strangelove

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Dr. Strangelove wrote: Spatulapup wrote: Frank Zappa. I enjoy watching interviews with him because he was a well spoken smart guy. But his music is horrible. I have tried to give it a chance but I just can't stand it. I have watched live footage and I can't believe people would find it entertaining. Very cool guy though.
I started listening to Frank Zappa in college only because he was different and that I was bored with what everyone was listening to.  I ended up having a huge Zappa CD (and some tape) collection (most of which are now lost).   I actually liked the way he experimented with different types of music, but I can understand why some people find it hard to listen to. 

Zappa songs are either really good or unlistenable.  I have the CD "Have I Offended Someone"  and I really like it, but I bought another CD and after one listen and skipping most of the songs halfway through I was greatly disappointed.  His music is meant to be funny or satyrical and if you're not into that style of music I can see why you'd hate it.

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Spatulapup wrote: Frank Zappa. I enjoy watching interviews with him because he was a well spoken smart guy. But his music is horrible. I have tried to give it a chance but I just can't stand it. I have watched live footage and I can't believe people would find it entertaining. Very cool guy though.
Zappa is probably my favorite personality in music.  Brilliant guy and his testimony to Congress as part of the PMRC censorship hearings is just outstanding, required reading for all.  All of his interviews are fantastic.  I've watched hours of them on YouTube.  It's sickening what his family has done to his name because everything he believed in was the antithesis of what's happening now.   

That said, most of his music is very experimental and avante-garde and hard to get into.  It mostly defies genre, although some of his stuff is more clearly defined as jazz fusion and is quite good.  When playing it straight, most of his compositions are pretty brilliant even if you don't like them.  But he enjoyed just doing weird and goofy things more.  I have most of his albums on iTunes and mostly only stop to listen to a handful of them now.  I can definitely see a lot of people wondering what the hell half of those songs are.  But that was the charm of Zappa.  He really didn't give a fuck if you understood his music or not, and he still managed to achieve mainstream success.   

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Very well said. I used to love just about everything Zappa did, from the straight musical compositions (Hot Rats) to some of his weirder, experimental stuff (the stuff he did with the Mothers and later stuff like Yellow Shark). His music is definitely an acquired taste, but he was always experimenting with new stuff that it was never boring.

That being said, it's been YEARS since I've listened to Zappa, since if I play his music now my wife would probably tell me to turn it off.

Last edited on Mon Jul 15th, 2019 01:18 pm by Dr. Strangelove

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Probably not popular but I can't get into the Dead or Led Zepplin at all. With the exception of one or two songs combined, their music just makes me turn off the radio

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Dr. Strangelove wrote: I had a college roommate who was a major Deadhead, but I don't remember he ever played any of their music in our dorm even though he would played music by others (maybe he even knew it sucked).  There used to be a radio station that I listened to which would have a "Grateful Dead Hour." I gave it s shot a couple of time, but after that I just listened to my CD's instead.

The only Grateful Dead song I know is the one they used to play on MTV in the 80's.  Nice, catchy song, I guess....but the rest of their other stuff are just garbage.



Touch of Grey

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victhestick wrote: Dr. Strangelove wrote: I had a college roommate who was a major Deadhead, but I don't remember he ever played any of their music in our dorm even though he would played music by others (maybe he even knew it sucked).  There used to be a radio station that I listened to which would have a "Grateful Dead Hour." I gave it s shot a couple of time, but after that I just listened to my CD's instead.

The only Grateful Dead song I know is the one they used to play on MTV in the 80's.  Nice, catchy song, I guess....but the rest of their other stuff are just garbage.



Touch of Grey

That's one more song than I know, so now I guess I need to YouTube this one.  The Dead thing just completely perplexes me, but I've always accepted that you just need to be stoned or tripping to be remotely interested in it, and that's not me.  And I can see drugs heightening a Pink Floyd experience, but the Dead seem like they suck regardless. 

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srossi wrote: victhestick wrote: Dr. Strangelove wrote: I had a college roommate who was a major Deadhead, but I don't remember he ever played any of their music in our dorm even though he would played music by others (maybe he even knew it sucked).  There used to be a radio station that I listened to which would have a "Grateful Dead Hour." I gave it s shot a couple of time, but after that I just listened to my CD's instead.

The only Grateful Dead song I know is the one they used to play on MTV in the 80's.  Nice, catchy song, I guess....but the rest of their other stuff are just garbage.



Touch of Grey

That's one more song than I know, so now I guess I need to YouTube this one.  The Dead thing just completely perplexes me, but I've always accepted that you just need to be stoned or tripping to be remotely interested in it, and that's not me.  And I can see drugs heightening a Pink Floyd experience, but the Dead seem like they suck regardless. 
I rate the Dead the same way I rate Springsteen. If you listen to some of the songs as individual works, they come across great. Enjoyable songs, lyrics, and musicianship. However, when you go into their 37 minute "Space", it completely falls apart. Garcia comes across as a hack, the two drummers sound like they're playing different songs, and you want to vivisect Bob Weir for wearing those short shorts on stage.

Things like the aforementioned Touch of Grey when taken by themselves, are incredible songs. Throwing Stones actually has a majestic, soaring guitar solo by Garcia which goes with the song perfectly. Anyone who doesn't like Sugar Magnolia is a voracious homosexual who hates the troops and kneels during the national anthem. Lots of good stuff. Tons more is unlistenable. However, they have enough good stuff that they can stay off a list like this.

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What defines overrated in this case? Is that the poster simply doesn't like the artist? Is there a criteria such as limited amount of acclaimed and/or popular work, bad live performances, and so on that can be applied?

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victhestick wrote: Dr. Strangelove wrote: I had a college roommate who was a major Deadhead, but I don't remember he ever played any of their music in our dorm even though he would played music by others (maybe he even knew it sucked).  There used to be a radio station that I listened to which would have a "Grateful Dead Hour." I gave it s shot a couple of time, but after that I just listened to my CD's instead.

The only Grateful Dead song I know is the one they used to play on MTV in the 80's.  Nice, catchy song, I guess....but the rest of their other stuff are just garbage.



Touch of Grey
Interesting that they used the English spelling.

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tamalie wrote: What defines overrated in this case? Is that the poster simply doesn't like the artist? Is there a criteria such as limited amount of acclaimed and/or popular work, bad live performances, and so on that can be applied?

I would assume someone who gets a whole load of critical acclaim yet produced absolute gash.
E.g. Michael Jackson.  The Thriller album being one good song ("Billie Jean") and a load of filler that gets at times deeply embarrassing.
Or Radiohead.   Emperor's new clothes.  It's like the critics are frightened of saying "this is all meaningless shite" because the other critics will laugh at them for being mainstream.

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I'll say Jefferson Airplane. Sure, they were hot in the late 60's, but their overall career catalog is severely over-rated. And yes, I'm only considering "Jefferson Airplane" and not lumping in "Jefferson Starship" and plain ol' "Starship".

They've long been given a pass because they were there in the late 60's, I feel. I just always assumed their old stuff was the "good stuff"... but I finally listened to it, as an adult, and thought: "that's it?"

I compare that to Fleetwood Mac. Finally listened to their old Peter Green stuff and was pleasantly surprised.



I'll also second that Nirvana was over-rated. Prime example is the song "Lithium". They couldn't come up with a chorus, so went with "Yeahhhh". Okay, so Usher and Lil Jon did the same, 13 years later, but it worked for them.


For KISS-- well, yeah, their songs all sound like they were written by a stray Muppet. But I'd argue that Ace Frehley may have influenced more guitarists than anybody else. Not for his playing technique, but "Space Ace" caught their eye and initially inspired a ton of kids to pick up the instrument.

Plus, Paul Stanley's 1/2 of the basis for Dr. Rockzo, so there's that.


RUSH will always be a personal favorite. They were the first band whose lyrics I completely understood at age 7 ("Red Barchetta"). But they're not for everyone and I get that. Unless you live in Toronto. Then you're required to like them or you'll be exiled to Manitoba.

RUSH fans will always (rightfully) point out their technical prowess. Excluding singing, of course. Everyone knows Geddy Lee and Neil Peart are legends in their fields. However, if Alex Lifeson had been in any other band, people would put him on the shortlist of Great Guitarists.

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Not sure anyone truly rates KISS as ground-breaking musicians. Marketers, yes. They basically took the Sweet shtick and mainstreamed it a bit but pushed themselves as being edgy and alternative.

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kargol wrote: Not sure anyone truly rates KISS as ground-breaking musicians. Marketers, yes. They basically took the Sweet shtick and mainstreamed it a bit but pushed themselves as being edgy and alternative.Nobody who knows music does. But if you watch music talent shows or listen to celebrities talk about their musical inspirations, a high percentage mention KISS. That's when I immediately change the channel.

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Erick Von Erich wrote: I'll say Jefferson Airplane. Sure, they were hot in the late 60's, but their overall career catalog is severely over-rated. And yes, I'm only considering "Jefferson Airplane" and not lumping in "Jefferson Starship" and plain ol' "Starship".

They've long been given a pass because they were there in the late 60's, I feel. I just always assumed their old stuff was the "good stuff"... but I finally listened to it, as an adult, and thought: "that's it?"

I compare that to Fleetwood Mac. Finally listened to their old Peter Green stuff and was pleasantly surprised.



I'll also second that Nirvana was over-rated. Prime example is the song "Lithium". They couldn't come up with a chorus, so went with "Yeahhhh". Okay, so Usher and Lil Jon did the same, 13 years later, but it worked for them.


For KISS-- well, yeah, their songs all sound like they were written by a stray Muppet. But I'd argue that Ace Frehley may have influenced more guitarists than anybody else. Not for his playing technique, but "Space Ace" caught their eye and initially inspired a ton of kids to pick up the instrument.

Plus, Paul Stanley's 1/2 of the basis for Dr. Rockzo, so there's that.


RUSH will always be a personal favorite. They were the first band whose lyrics I completely understood at age 7 ("Red Barchetta"). But they're not for everyone and I get that. Unless you live in Toronto. Then you're required to like them or you'll be exiled to Manitoba.

RUSH fans will always (rightfully) point out their technical prowess. Excluding singing, of course. Everyone knows Geddy Lee and Neil Peart are legends in their fields. However, if Alex Lifeson had been in any other band, people would put him on the shortlist of Great Guitarists.

Jefferson airplane is crap. I think they have 2 listenable songs. The rest  is really bad. And they were horrible live too

Never a fan of CSNY either. Or Fleetwood Mac.

I dont understand the appeal of Jimmy Buffet. I know one song but he has  a loyal following.

Last edited on Wed Jul 17th, 2019 05:39 am by Spatulapup

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Fleetwood Mac (after Lindsay & Stevie joined) were awesome when they were reasonably sober. The double album Rumours is a masterpiece.

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I agree Rumours is a masterpiece, but it's a single album!

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chrob61 wrote: I agree Rumours is a masterpiece, but it's a single album!
They're not a one album wonder.  That might be their best, but they have tons of great songs across their whole catalogue, including recent ones.  Even "Say You Will", from 2003, is awesome.

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By "single" album, I mean 1 disc, not 2. I wouldn't even put FM in this discussion of over rated bands, but that's just my opinion.

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Toto is one of my favorite bands, but I would have to put them down as overrated because of how they always butcher their own songs live.

I love most of their songs, but their live performances usually sound like crap. I get that a lot of songs sound different live, but when Toto sing their own songs they sound like people at karaoke bars who have bad too much to drink trying to sing songs way beyond their range.

Last edited on Sun Jul 21st, 2019 12:41 am by Dr. Strangelove

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Dr. Strangelove wrote: Toto is one of my favorite bands, but I would have to put them down as overrated because of how they always butcher their own songs live.

I love most of their songs, but their live performances usually sound like crap. I get that a lot of songs sound different live, but when Toto sing their own songs they sound like people at karaoke bars who have bad too much to drink trying to sing songs way beyond their range.
This actually would be a good idea for a thread title. There's a lot of good bands that suck live.

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Heenan Fan wrote: Dr. Strangelove wrote: Toto is one of my favorite bands, but I would have to put them down as overrated because of how they always butcher their own songs live.

I love most of their songs, but their live performances usually sound like crap. I get that a lot of songs sound different live, but when Toto sing their own songs they sound like people at karaoke bars who have bad too much to drink trying to sing songs way beyond their range.
This actually would be a good idea for a thread title. There's a lot of good bands that suck live.

The absolute worst live performances I've seen in the past few years are Vince Neil, Van Halen (David Lee Roth), and Don Dokken.  Plenty of '80s guys have lost a step, but these 3 are incapable of publicly performing anymore and that goes above and beyond everyone else from that generation. 

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Big Garea Fan wrote: Jay Z
Technically he's not a singer, band, or musician.  He's a great talker and producer.  Much like Arn Anderson.

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I mentioned Fleetwood Mac as a comparison... but I don't consider them over-rated. Decent band. Have the early blues stuff with Peter Green, the 70's AOR stuff, 80's soft rock, and even listenable stuff in the past 20 years.

As a kid, I thought it was odd (or a typo) that Judas Priest's "Green Manalishi" was cited as a Fleetwood Mac cover. Finally heard the original, years later, and agreed with Priest that it was a cool song.

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Erick Von Erich wrote: As a kid, I thought it was odd (or a typo) that Judas Priest's "Green Manalishi" was cited as a Fleetwood Mac cover. Finally heard the original, years later, and agreed with Priest that it was a cool song.
I didn't realize this was a Mac song until into the 2000s, and I was very surprised.

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Superstar wrote: Big Garea Fan wrote: Jay Z
Technically he's not a singer, band, or musician.  He's a great talker and producer.  Much like Arn Anderson.


😂😂😂😂

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Christina Aguilera. No one is as good as she thinks she is.

Same with Celine Dion.

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The term overrated is tough in this case because it all comes down to personal opinion. Looking at some artists others have mentioned, I find Fleetwood Mac really boring and would be fine to never hear a song of theirs again. To someone else, they might be very underrated.

Here are my thoughts on some other suggestions.

- Jay Z was around for a long time before broke through. He and Positive K would freestyle between outfit changes for Big Daddy Kane. He was also a sidekick of Jaz-O in the late 1980s/early 1990s when Jaz had both a Fresh Prince comedy and then an Afrocentric stint with a lot 5 percenter stuff. The idea circa 1990 that Jay Z would be one of the biggest stars of all time would have been laughable. That he did make it so big was down to hard work, talent, and the all important stroke of luck of being in the right place at the right time. He broke through just before 2Pac was killed and then Biggie was killed not too much afterwards. The crown as king of hip hop was vacant. Various contenders and pretenders to the throne came and went. Jay Z was the last man standing and had the clout to get the top producers on his side with all the A&R, label, radio, and mass media support he could ever want. To me, the idea if him being overrated kicks in around 2009 with "The Blueprint 3". He went from being a rapper to being a mainstream media celebrity with business clout. His fame rose just as his talent and artistic relevance started the trip downward.


- Jefferson Airplane fell prey to the drug use, counterculture and political mumbo jumbo, and egomania that afflicted a lot of groups from that era. To explain, rather than defend, their insufficiencies as a live act, I don't think any artists back knew how to properly set up a PA for big venues until the Rolling Stones on their late 1969 North American tour.


- Regarding Vince Neil, a friend who saw the last Motley Crue tour said it was embarrassing to hear how shot his voice has become and in combination with his appearance was reason enough for the Crue to have retired the band long before then, never mind waiting until the physical problems of Mick Mars made it almost impossible for him to perform.


- I'm no fan of CSN or CSNY. I like some Hollies, Byrds, Buffalo Springfield, and solo work from Neil Young from time to time, but all of them together don't bring much to the table. On a side note, even when CSN and CSNY weren't getting alone, David Crosby and Graham Nash always stuck together and had some albums as a duo that sold alright in the 1970s. Something happened recently and now there's been a split. Combine that with Neil Young not needing or probably wanting to do it and the chances of a CSNY reunion are next to none while CSN reuniting is at least unlikely. So Crosby reached out to Roger McGuinn and Chris Hillman about a Byrds reunion only to be shot down. Crosby then complained about everyone hating him only for McGuinn to state that Crosby has a persecution complex and that not wanting to work with him doesn't equal hating him.

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martini wrote: Christina Aguilera. No one is as good as she thinks she is.
Agreed. I hate her. She feels that she has to screeeeeaaaaam in every song she does. She can't just sing a note, she has to SIIIIIIIIING a note. I can't remember the exact event (maybe an All-Star Game), but she did the National Anthem and it was awful. The word "oh" suddenly had 12 syllables so she could scream away.
Even when she was trying to be "sexy", circa 2002 with her "Dirty" song. I was in my late 20's, so you'd think I'd be into some chick shaking her goods... but she was scrawny and gross. I had a long history of yanking it to hot chicks in music videos, but this fell flaccid--- err--- flat with me.

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martini wrote: Christina Aguilera. No one is as good as she thinks she is.

Same with Celine Dion.


Celine is just horrible all around.  Horrible to look at.  Horrible performances.  Horrible songs. 

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It's the difference between perfection and emotion. They both seem to think that if you nail the perfect coloratura then you've made something special. But it's not about that. It's about interpretation and being in sympathy. Ginger Baker wouldn't have worked as a Beatle, for instance.

See also: Mariah fucking Carey.

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My hot takes:

- KISS was probably invented like this "Hey, let`s be an American version of Slade but without the good parts" "So kinda like The Sweet?" "A lot worse than that"
- I would have loved to have listened to an alternative universe version of Oasis minus cocaine and the stupid Loudness Wars stuff. You can barely listen to their stuff if you dislike that loudness style
- Sex Pistols were pure gimmick, "their" punk culture was pure gimmick - which makes it difficult to rate their stuff. I just roll my eyes when it comes to their cultural implications and aspects
- I really don't know why Coldplay was able to make it and Travis didn't. Isn`t it pretty much the same stuff?
- 80s US hairspray stuff like Leppard and Motley is pretty much overrated if you consider what else has been forgotten. I couldn't tell you why they succeeded and White Lion and Hanoi Rocks didn`t
- otherwise mainstream R&B / EDM / Pop from the last 25 years has been mainly bland. It has that bland flavour like that mainstream stuff that wasn`t rock or pop which was popular with the older folks until like 1975. I don't think Beyonce will hold up like Diana Ross. So many contemporary acts should be forgotten like Rosemary Clooney was.

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Motley Crue essentially started it all for the modern era. It’s not fair to wonder why they succeeded when White Lion and dozens of others didn’t. Those bands don’t exist without Crue. If you were a kid in 1983 that band resonated like KISS in the ‘70s and The Beatles in the ‘60s. You had to be there. But they were 3-4 years before a lot of the glam stuff broke and 6 years before every singer who could afford a can of hairspray got a record deal.

Last edited on Sat Aug 10th, 2019 03:42 pm by srossi

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Weren't Crue basically a family-friendly Twisted Sister/New York Dolls? They don't mean much over here.

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kargol wrote: Weren't Crue basically a family-friendly Twisted Sister/New York Dolls? They don't mean much over here.
There was nothing family friendly about them. Twisted Sister became the family friendly band, although they almost had a punk edge in terms of attitude during their club days before they made it big. 

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As a kid I actually liked Def Leppard and even some Motley Crue. Most of the other hair bands are really stupid, but I don't really listen to them. The ones I really distain due to excessive air-play were Poison and Winger.

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Dr. Strangelove wrote: As a kid I actually liked Def Leppard and even some Motley Crue. Most of the other hair bands are really stupid, but I don't really listen to them. The ones I really distain due to excessive air-play were Poison and Winger.
I never heard Winger get any airplay except maybe that one ballad “Madalaine”. I was into the scene and basically only knew the band from Beavis and Butt-Head where the geeky kid was the only one who liked them. That may be their biggest claim to fame. 

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You're right I kinda put Winger in there like an afterthought. I really just wanted to say Poison but I thought I should name more than one, and I remember seeing a Winger music video one time and never wanted to see it again lol.

Last edited on Sun Aug 11th, 2019 06:29 am by Dr. Strangelove

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srossi wrote: Dr. Strangelove wrote: As a kid I actually liked Def Leppard and even some Motley Crue. Most of the other hair bands are really stupid, but I don't really listen to them. The ones I really distain due to excessive air-play were Poison and Winger.
I never heard Winger get any airplay except maybe that one ballad “Madalaine”. I was into the scene and basically only knew the band from Beavis and Butt-Head where the geeky kid was the only one who liked them. That may be their biggest claim to fame. 


She's only Seventeen...

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Regarding the Sex Pistols being manufactured, to some extent that was the case. Malcolm McLaren took an existing band with Steve Jones and Paul Cook, then added Glen Matlock and John Lydon to it while the image and sound evolved in the process. He also pushed a lot of the image and provocative style that they're remembered for a lot more than the music in some quarters. I think John Lydon was and is legit. When Sid Vicious replaced Matlock, it took out the most normal band member and added a guy who was on a fast road to oblivion.

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tamalie wrote: Regarding the Sex Pistols being manufactured, to some extent that was the case. Malcolm McLaren took an existing band with Steve Jones and Paul Cook, then added Glen Matlock and John Lydon to it while the image and sound evolved in the process. He also pushed a lot of the image and provocative style that they're remembered for a lot more than the music in some quarters. I think John Lydon was and is legit. When Sid Vicious replaced Matlock, it took out the most normal band member and added a guy who was on a fast road to oblivion.
Johnny Rotten would've been a much bigger star if he was half as manufactured as people say.  He was and is impossible to work with and spit in the faces of so many powerful people that it really destroyed any chance at a mainstream career beyond the 3 years they were somewhat hot in the '70s.  The Clash certainly played better with others, thus the difference in longevity and acclaim.

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srossi wrote: tamalie wrote: Regarding the Sex Pistols being manufactured, to some extent that was the case. Malcolm McLaren took an existing band with Steve Jones and Paul Cook, then added Glen Matlock and John Lydon to it while the image and sound evolved in the process. He also pushed a lot of the image and provocative style that they're remembered for a lot more than the music in some quarters. I think John Lydon was and is legit. When Sid Vicious replaced Matlock, it took out the most normal band member and added a guy who was on a fast road to oblivion.
Johnny Rotten would've been a much bigger star if he was half as manufactured as people say.  He was and is impossible to work with and spit in the faces of so many powerful people that it really destroyed any chance at a mainstream career beyond the 3 years they were somewhat hot in the '70s.  The Clash certainly played better with others, thus the difference in longevity and acclaim.


I don't know much about the Sex Pistols, but I just watched the making of Nevermind the Bollocks, and Malcolm seemed completely full of shit.  He reminded me of guys in wrestling shoots talking about "the good old days." (Ever see the Greg Gagne YouShoot where every successful thing Vince did was really thought up by Verne but Vinnie stole it?  Verne was the only honest wrestling promotor and everyone he went into business double crossed him otherwise all of Verne's genius ideas would have made millions for all involved.  Sorry I digress...)

Everything that worked was preplanned because he could see the trends months in advance.  Everything that got the band notoriety was orchestrated by him.  Everything that went wrong was the band's fault.  When it came to its eventual and somewhat abrupt end he didn't care because the whole thing was a lark.

Which was it?  Was everything carefully orchestrated by the genius puppet master and the band were just pawns, or was it a lark and the boys being themselves?

Last edited on Wed Aug 14th, 2019 08:44 pm by The Ultimate Sin

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The Ultimate Sin wrote: srossi wrote: tamalie wrote: Regarding the Sex Pistols being manufactured, to some extent that was the case. Malcolm McLaren took an existing band with Steve Jones and Paul Cook, then added Glen Matlock and John Lydon to it while the image and sound evolved in the process. He also pushed a lot of the image and provocative style that they're remembered for a lot more than the music in some quarters. I think John Lydon was and is legit. When Sid Vicious replaced Matlock, it took out the most normal band member and added a guy who was on a fast road to oblivion.
Johnny Rotten would've been a much bigger star if he was half as manufactured as people say.  He was and is impossible to work with and spit in the faces of so many powerful people that it really destroyed any chance at a mainstream career beyond the 3 years they were somewhat hot in the '70s.  The Clash certainly played better with others, thus the difference in longevity and acclaim.


I don't know much about the Sex Pistols, but I just watched the making of Nevermind the Bollocks, and Malcolm seemed completely full of shit.  He reminded me of guys in wrestling shoots talking about "the good old days." (Ever see the Greg Gagne YouShoot where every successful thing Vince did was really thought up by Verne but Vinnie stole it?  Verne was the only honest wrestling promotor and everyone he went into business double crossed him otherwise all of Verne's genius ideas would have made millions for all involved.  Sorry I digress...)

Everything that worked was preplanned because he could see the trends months in advance.  Everything that got the band notoriety was orchestrated by him.  Everything that went wrong was the band's fault.  When it came to its eventual and somewhat abrupt end he didn't care because the whole thing was a lark.

Which was it?  Was everything carefully orchestrated by the genius puppet master and the band were just pawns, or was it a lark and the boys being themselves?

Music promoters are every bit the carnies that wrestling promoters are, so I wouldn’t listen to anything he had to say. I don’t believe for one second that he had much control over Rotten and Viscious though. 

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The Ultimate Sin wrote: srossi wrote: tamalie wrote: Regarding the Sex Pistols being manufactured, to some extent that was the case. Malcolm McLaren took an existing band with Steve Jones and Paul Cook, then added Glen Matlock and John Lydon to it while the image and sound evolved in the process. He also pushed a lot of the image and provocative style that they're remembered for a lot more than the music in some quarters. I think John Lydon was and is legit. When Sid Vicious replaced Matlock, it took out the most normal band member and added a guy who was on a fast road to oblivion.
Johnny Rotten would've been a much bigger star if he was half as manufactured as people say.  He was and is impossible to work with and spit in the faces of so many powerful people that it really destroyed any chance at a mainstream career beyond the 3 years they were somewhat hot in the '70s.  The Clash certainly played better with others, thus the difference in longevity and acclaim.


I don't know much about the Sex Pistols, but I just watched the making of Nevermind the Bollocks, and Malcolm seemed completely full of shit.  He reminded me of guys in wrestling shoots talking about "the good old days." (Ever see the Greg Gagne YouShoot where every successful thing Vince did was really thought up by Verne but Vinnie stole it?  Verne was the only honest wrestling promotor and everyone he went into business double crossed him otherwise all of Verne's genius ideas would have made millions for all involved.  Sorry I digress...)

Everything that worked was preplanned because he could see the trends months in advance.  Everything that got the band notoriety was orchestrated by him.  Everything that went wrong was the band's fault.  When it came to its eventual and somewhat abrupt end he didn't care because the whole thing was a lark.

Which was it?  Was everything carefully orchestrated by the genius puppet master and the band were just pawns, or was it a lark and the boys being themselves?

Music promoters are every bit the carnies that wrestling promoters are, so I wouldn’t listen to anything he had to say. I don’t believe for one second that he had much control over Rotten and Vicious though. Even Steve Jones in his old age seems like a little bit of a loose cannon still. 


Last edited on Wed Aug 14th, 2019 09:52 pm by srossi

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The Ultimate Sin wrote: srossi wrote: tamalie wrote: Regarding the Sex Pistols being manufactured, to some extent that was the case. Malcolm McLaren took an existing band with Steve Jones and Paul Cook, then added Glen Matlock and John Lydon to it while the image and sound evolved in the process. He also pushed a lot of the image and provocative style that they're remembered for a lot more than the music in some quarters. I think John Lydon was and is legit. When Sid Vicious replaced Matlock, it took out the most normal band member and added a guy who was on a fast road to oblivion.
Johnny Rotten would've been a much bigger star if he was half as manufactured as people say.  He was and is impossible to work with and spit in the faces of so many powerful people that it really destroyed any chance at a mainstream career beyond the 3 years they were somewhat hot in the '70s.  The Clash certainly played better with others, thus the difference in longevity and acclaim.


I don't know much about the Sex Pistols, but I just watched the making of Nevermind the Bollocks, and Malcolm seemed completely full of shit.  He reminded me of guys in wrestling shoots talking about "the good old days." (Ever see the Greg Gagne YouShoot where every successful thing Vince did was really thought up by Verne but Vinnie stole it?  Verne was the only honest wrestling promotor and everyone he went into business double crossed him otherwise all of Verne's genius ideas would have made millions for all involved.  Sorry I digress...)

Everything that worked was preplanned because he could see the trends months in advance.  Everything that got the band notoriety was orchestrated by him.  Everything that went wrong was the band's fault.  When it came to its eventual and somewhat abrupt end he didn't care because the whole thing was a lark.
Which was it?  Was everything carefully orchestrated by the genius puppet master and the band were just pawns, or was it a lark and the boys being themselves?
McLaren was a brilliant improviser.  The Great Rock & Roll Swindle was a retcon, emphasis on the con.  He tried to push the New York Dolls into outrage but they were too chaotic to function.  The Pistols were an advert for the fetish shop he ran with Vivienne Westwood, Sex, hence the name.  Matlock worked there and was a bassist in his spare time, so when Jones/Cook needed a proper musician, McLaren put them together.  And recruited Rotten (an occasional customer/shoplifter) because he had the antagonistic presence.
McLaren did push for outrage but got lucky.  Someone cancelled on a live news programme and the Pistols went on and swore.  McLaren thought it was all over then and there, but it kickstarted them into the stratosphere.  When EMI wanted to drop the Pistols as a direct result he just sic'ed lawyers on them.  And did the same with A&M.  But at the time Virgin was a very hippie label, all Mike Oldfield, and was a last resort.  So again that was unplanned.
The Vicious thing ran right out of control, that was really McLaren trying to show that it was all image rather than music, and it didn't work - the thing people overlook with Never Mind The Bollocks is that it is a fucking brilliant record, and that was almost all down to Matlock and Rotten, both of whom he had pissed off.  And he flogged that horse into oblivion.
But he was ahead of the game in many respects.  Only the execution was off. He thought the big Burundi drumbeat would be the next big thing, and he basically took the Ants away from Adam Ant and put them behind gaolbait singer Annabella Lwin, and named them Bow Wow Wow.  He was right - but wrong.  Adam Ant recruited new Ants and sold about two million in 1981.  BWW flopped.
He also brought hip hop to the UK, plus vogue, but it was too avant garde for the times.  He essentially paved the way for both to become huge in Britain but had already moved on to the next thing when they did.  (Missed out on a few other ideas - he thought mixing house and opera would take off, but, apart from some rather brilliant singles, it never did.)
Bit unfair though to claim Rotten did less than The Clash.  He had a much longer career in music, PiL were consistent sellers into the 1990s.  And he's also had a lot of television.

tamalie
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The Sex Pistols getting dropped by EMI in the hullabaloo over "God Save The Queen" was stated by one rock writer (Dave Marsh?) as a predictable move from a rather stodgy and corporate outfit, even by record label standards. The band then getting promptly signed and dropped within a week by A&M was about that label completely miscalculating what the Sex Pistols were, if what that was can be properly defined, either thinking it was all gimmick and being stunned to find it wasn't or not being prepared for what do about how far McLaren and the band would go even if it was all a gimmick. The group then ended up with Virgin.

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EMI was hopeless at the time. It gave up the right to make Life Of Brian because of a sudden moral panic. George Harrison formed Handmade Films simply because he wanted to see the film made and put in £3m.

A&M dropped the Pistols after its prog rock contingent threatened to cancel their contracts if the label signed up an act of such ostensible incompetence.



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