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Grand Opening.. Grand Closing -- AAF suspends all operations  Rate Topic 
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 Posted: Tue Apr 2nd, 2019 05:34 pm
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krazykid18

 

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https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/04/02/the-aaf-will-suspend-all-football-operations/
XFL i hope you are watching. 
AAF wanted to be a minor league system to the NFL, but NFL already has a free one in college football and also the CFL 
Lose 70 million but be in the running to make a billion
https://twitter.com/AlbertBreer/status/1113123410215952386

Last edited on Tue Apr 2nd, 2019 05:44 pm by krazykid18

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 Posted: Tue Apr 2nd, 2019 06:13 pm
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srossi

 

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I literally haven't heard about this since opening night when it seemed to have a semblance of buzz. By the next week, I forgot this thing still existed.



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 Posted: Tue Apr 2nd, 2019 06:19 pm
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Superstar
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I never watched a ply but it appears that Tom Dundon is a major scumbag piece of shit for doing this.



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 Posted: Tue Apr 2nd, 2019 09:37 pm
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Papa Voo



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I was watching it the first two weeks and then it tailed off.

This is not competition to the NFL.

Why isn’t the NFL assisting if they want this as a feeder league?

Bad financial planning if they are already tanking.

What did Dundon do? He captured the majority of the league. Is he the one pushing to end the league?



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 Posted: Tue Apr 2nd, 2019 10:00 pm
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AAF is blaming this on the NFL's refuses to send their practice squad players and prospects for fear of injury. Makes sense to me, although the AAF are kind of the babyfaces here, they should of known better. You can't blame NFL teams for not wanting to get get their investments injured, but if the League promised AAF practice squaders/prospects beforehand and renegged on the deal,then that's just screwed up. That's the question imo.



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 Posted: Wed Apr 3rd, 2019 02:27 am
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tamalie
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The AAF ran out of money in about week two or three. It got a new money mark who pledged around $250,000,000, putting in $70,000,000 of that right away. However, the league still kept losing money at an alarming rate because the cost of running a pro football team with 45 to 50 players on the roster with all of those coaches and support staff members requires major capital and cash flow. The TV revenue and other income generated by the AAF wasn't remotely high enough to meet the operating expenses.

To stem the tide of losses and make the AAF work, the league wanted the NFL to send in practice squad guys. NFL teams would presumably have paid for all or most of the salaries for the guys it had under contract which would have greatly reduced costs for the AAF. It was also assumed that interest from NFL fans in seeing their team's players in the AAF would have raised TV and other revenue. It was seen by the AAF as the only path to survival.

The NFL was receptive to doing something, but made no promises. The collective bargaining agreement between the NFL and the NFLPA doesn't allow for this type of arrangement. The NFLPA would have had to make an exception, something that likely wouldn't have happened unless the NFL made some concessions to the union. The AAF and the NFLPA had talks, but it was clear that a solution wasn't going to come in time for the AAF, certainly not this season and probably not 2020 either. Given the massive financial losses, the money mark, Carolina Hurricanes owner Tom Dundon, decided to pull out and not put in the remaining $180,000,000 he'd committed to providing.

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 Posted: Wed Apr 3rd, 2019 07:18 am
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Now Johnny Manziel is out of work again, only thing is do we blame Trump or Obama?



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 Posted: Wed Apr 3rd, 2019 07:28 am
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Kriss
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Complete outsider view here:

The NFL runs for five months, September to January. If that's not enough football for you, there's also college football, but that season also runs September to January. And the CFL, which runs June to November.

If you are a fan of major league sports, hockey and basketball also run over the winter, but with longer seasons, and baseball runs through the summer, from April to October.

So a new football league needs enough football fans who need a football fix from February to May, and who probably aren't baseball fans, to make a success of a secondary league. Given that every secondary pro football league in the US has failed, as far as I can see, did anyone do any research to see if there was a demand for a secondary football league?

The decision to restart the XFL boggles the mind. Either they entered the market competing against the AAF, with the AAF having a one-year head-start to scoop up the hardcore football fans, or... the AAF fails, as it has, and XFL enters a market that clearly can't bring in enough revenue to sustain itself. The XFL seem to be using "giving the fans what they want" as their rallying call, but have they asked, or is this more of Vince knowing what the fans want more than they do (spoiler: he doesn't)?

Last edited on Wed Apr 3rd, 2019 07:30 am by Kriss

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 Posted: Wed Apr 3rd, 2019 03:59 pm
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srossi

 

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Kriss wrote: Complete outsider view here:

The NFL runs for five months, September to January. If that's not enough football for you, there's also college football, but that season also runs September to January. And the CFL, which runs June to November.

If you are a fan of major league sports, hockey and basketball also run over the winter, but with longer seasons, and baseball runs through the summer, from April to October.

So a new football league needs enough football fans who need a football fix from February to May, and who probably aren't baseball fans, to make a success of a secondary league. Given that every secondary pro football league in the US has failed, as far as I can see, did anyone do any research to see if there was a demand for a secondary football league?

The decision to restart the XFL boggles the mind. Either they entered the market competing against the AAF, with the AAF having a one-year head-start to scoop up the hardcore football fans, or... the AAF fails, as it has, and XFL enters a market that clearly can't bring in enough revenue to sustain itself. The XFL seem to be using "giving the fans what they want" as their rallying call, but have they asked, or is this more of Vince knowing what the fans want more than they do (spoiler: he doesn't)?

You put more thought into this than any of them have.  The reasoning seems to be simply this: The NFL is stupid popular so let's siphon off just 10% of that popularity during the off-season and we'll make loads of money.  Clearly, that is not working.  Fans do not want inferior football, and the most hardcore fans probably enjoy the break and the chance to rediscover their families for a few months.   

Last edited on Wed Apr 3rd, 2019 04:00 pm by srossi



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 Posted: Wed Apr 3rd, 2019 04:09 pm
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tamalie
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The AAF ratings weren't terrible given the product and the expectations. Unlike the XFL, there was no WWF hype job building unreasonable expectations. Attendance was okay in some cities although my guess is there were lots of free or cut rate tickets, so those crowds generated little revenue. The big issue is it's just too expensive to start a pro football league from scratch due to the size of the rosters and the infrastructures those teams must have unless the money people want to lose a lot from the start without any promise of getting anything back soon. The idea of the AAF being a developmental league for the NFL, which NFL Europe was by the end, should have been pursued long before launch and long before the money mark who saved the AAF from folding after week 2 pledged his money.

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 Posted: Wed Apr 3rd, 2019 04:13 pm
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Kriss
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I recently rewatched the period of WWF when they were promoting the XFL. It quickly went from "hottest new experience in sports" to "tell your local new outlets to cover the XFL" to "these guys aren't the best but they try hard."

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 Posted: Wed Apr 3rd, 2019 04:52 pm
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Papa Voo



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tamalie wrote: The AAF ratings weren't terrible given the product and the expectations. Unlike the XFL, there was no WWF hype job building unreasonable expectations. Attendance was okay in some cities although my guess is there were lots of free or cut rate tickets, so those crowds generated little revenue. The big issue is it's just too expensive to start a pro football league from scratch due to the size of the rosters and the infrastructures those teams must have unless the money people want to lose a lot from the start without any promise of getting anything back soon. The idea of the AAF being a developmental league for the NFL, which NFL Europe was by the end, should have been pursued long before launch and long before the money mark who saved the AAF from folding after week 2 pledged his money.

I agree.  It sounds like the NFL had a stake in this so why weren't/aren’t they involved in assisting to try and keep this league afloat.  It seems like the connection to the NFL as a feeder league was done ass-backwards.  



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 Posted: Wed Apr 3rd, 2019 08:17 pm
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tamalie
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I don't think the NFL had any stake in the AAF. When the guy who owns the Carolina Hurricanes stepped up to pledge $70,000,000 right away and an additional $180,000,000 later, he made a big deal about the AAF getting NFL practice squad guys on to teams, looking at cost savings in the form of the NFL paying some or all of the salaries for its contracted players, perhaps some assistance from the NFL marketing machine, and more attention from media and fans due to the NFL connection. However, the NFL hasn't had any sort of league like this since NFL Europe closed down after the 2007 season and figures it isn't a pressing need because it has college football and its own practice squad program. Plus NFL teams sending guys into NFL Europe were, by the end, viewed as using the league as a holding tank for borderline guys it wanted at training camp or for fringe roster players rather than for truly developing younger players into people who could potentially start or be factors as subs and special teamers.


The other factor is the CBA between the NFL and NFLPA runs through the 2020 season and has no provision within it to provide for any assignment by NFL teams of any player, full roster, practice squad, off seaosn roster or rookie, to any minor or developmental league. To send any practice squad guy to the AAF, the NFL would need to have an allowance from the NFLPA to do so. The NFL had some talks with the AAF and was receptive in a noncommittal way and essentially told the AAF to go talk with the NFLPA about it. I assume this was because the NFL didn't want to bring up the subject with the NFLPA itself and get into any sort of preliminary CBA renewal talks or reopening of the current CBA over a topic like this when it is rightfully well down the priority list.


The AAF had some talks with the NFLPA, but came away knowing that getting any NFL practice squad players in 2019 was going to be impossible and with the collective bargaining agreement running through the 2020 NFL season, getting any practice squad players for a 2020 AAF season also was a remote possibility at best with 2021 far from guaranteed as well given the likely pace of the negotiations for the CBA. The AAF felt it could not wait until then at the earliest, so the money mark pulled out and won't put in the other $180,000,000 he was bringing to the table. Without that money, the AAF won't have the money to continue and while the NFL could put that money in itself, it has no pressing need to do so.

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 Posted: Wed Apr 3rd, 2019 09:37 pm
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Papa Voo



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I agree, tamalie, but they were getting coverage on the NFL channel. The NFL permitted their owners to speak with team officials in the AAF which would never be permitted with a competitor. They could have buried them. Others are talking like they were competition to the NFL.


Maybe it was just a case if them needing to sink or swim on their own. It sounded like the NFL was okay using it as a feeder league, but the players union was against it. Maybe I am incorrect with that assumption. I am going by what I thought I heard and understood.



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 Posted: Wed Apr 3rd, 2019 09:55 pm
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tamalie
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I don't think the players union was necessarily against it and might have even supported the idea, but practice squad guys to getting sent to a minor league isn't in the CBA. The NFLPA rightfully can't agree to something like that wholesale and would want and need a concession from the NFL to go along with it.

For that matter, there are things in the CBA about everything from how practices are run, how many can be held and when, handling of grievances, expenses, per diems, benefits disciplinary rules, medical care, and so on that to guys on practice squad money would be especially meaningful and which would have to be somehow addressed. My understanding is the NFL was alright by the idea, but wanted to AAF to sound out the NFLPA because the last thing the NFL wants to do is upset an increasingly uneasy labor peace over bringing up the AAF itself.

In the end, I very much agree that going to the NFL and NFLPA about using practice squad guys halfway through the first season was way too late, but the money man wanted it that way and made staying in contingent upon this occurring. It makes me wonder what AAF personnel might have said to him when courting him as a financial savior several weeks ago that perhaps either left him unaware of how bad off the AAF's debts and expenses were or perhaps made him think that becoming a developmental league for the NFL would be an easier deal to close than was ultimately the case.

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