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beejmi
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Put me down for Eric Lindros

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Sandy Koufax

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Billy Sims

Ralph Sampson

RGIII

Antonio McDyess

Brandon Roy

Paul Gascoigne (English soccer player, and by perfect health I mean not only him not suffering the terrible knee injury in 1991 but also getting ahold of his mental health issues and general fitness with his weight).

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My favorite player Don Mattingly. If only his back hadn't gone out so early in his career.

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Every single one of these is awesome, especially Mattingly, who was well on his way to the HOF. I wonder if Jordan would have been better if he didn’t break his foot his second year, it could’ve made the championship clock start ticking earlier. And being from his hometown, I would LOVE to have seen Bobby Valentine’s career stats if he hadn’t gotten the compound fracture of his lower leg in ‘72 when he was hitting .360 for the Angels. If Giancarlo Stanton hasn’t missed what amounts to be a full season of games, he’d probably be 40HR closer to Bonds with another ten quality years to make a run.

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beejmi wrote: Put me down for Eric Lindros
Lindros was a dick.  But he didn’t deserve the beatings he took.

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The previously mentioned Terrell Davis was my first thought. If Matt Lepsis hadn't fallen on his knee in 1999... well, Brian Griese would've still stunk the team up until 2003.

In baseball, I would've liked to have seen Jason Kendall injury free. He didn't turn out to be anything special, but he seemed to have a decent career going until 1999. I can't recall the exact details, but he had a nasty foot injury, circa July 1999, and wasn't exactly the same, afterwards.

From a personal, selfish, standpoint, I wish the Yankees' much-hyped Brien Taylor hadn't been injured in a fight. Had a buncha' his baseball cards, circa 1992. I mean, I could've (maybe) made about 3 bucks off of them, if all had turned out well!

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Mickey Mantle. It would have helped if he had laid off the sauce & had taken better care of himself.

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Bo Jackson.

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Erick Von Erich wrote: The previously mentioned Terrell Davis was my first thought. If Matt Lepsis hadn't fallen on his knee in 1999... well, Brian Griese would've still stunk the team up until 2003.

In baseball, I would've liked to have seen Jason Kendall injury free. He didn't turn out to be anything special, but he seemed to have a decent career going until 1999. I can't recall the exact details, but he had a nasty foot injury, circa July 1999, and wasn't exactly the same, afterwards.

From a personal, selfish, standpoint, I wish the Yankees' much-hyped Brien Taylor hadn't been injured in a fight. Had a buncha' his baseball cards, circa 1992. I mean, I could've (maybe) made about 3 bucks off of them, if all had turned out well!

I'm a Broncos fan but Terrell Davis seems like he had almost the typical RB career at this point.  This guys just don't last, and especially now it's barely a position that warrants attention.  It was still kinda important when Davis played, but it was fading.  It's hard to name a RB in this thread just because they all seem so replaceable and have such short careers the last 20 years.  If Davis hadn't retired young, he would be more the exception to the rule.  Basically 2 monster seasons and 1 very good one will get you into the HOF at some positions in the NFL now.

And with the way the Yankees over-hyped draft picks back then, I'm willing to bet that a 100% healthy Brien Taylor had a career no better than Scott Kamieniecki.  Their scouting was a joke back then.

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srossi wrote: I'm a Broncos fan but Terrell Davis seems like he had almost the typical RB career at this point.  This guys just don't last, and especially now it's barely a position that warrants attention.  It was still kinda important when Davis played, but it was fading.  It's hard to name a RB in this thread just because they all seem so replaceable and have such short careers the last 20 years.  If Davis hadn't retired young, he would be more the exception to the rule.  Basically 2 monster seasons and 1 very good one will get you into the HOF at some positions in the NFL now.

And with the way the Yankees over-hyped draft picks back then, I'm willing to bet that a 100% healthy Brien Taylor had a career no better than Scott Kamieniecki.  Their scouting was a joke back then.

I'm a Bronco fan, yet I don't think Davis is Hall of Fame worthy---at all. Had he been healthy from '99 on, I'm guessing he would've been been worthy. And, on a minor note, his fun "symptoms of a migraine" downtown mural on 15th and California might've lasted longer. As it was, he brought some consistency to the RB position in Denver (after going through the Bobby Humphrey/Gaston Green/Rob Bernstine/Leonard Russell
I agree about RBs not lasting. I still think they had some major value in TD's career, though (1995-2001). There were signs, earlier, but I think around 2003 is when the "franchise RB" began to fade away. A guy who would put up at least 1,000 yards a year and score about 10+ TDs. I think Frank Gore may end up being the last of this breed.

Brien Taylor < Scott Kamienieck is probably accurate. When I first got into baseball cards in late '89, one of the first "rules" I read somewhere was: "ignore all young NY pitchers, like Al Leiter". Ironically, Leiter went on to have a decent career, after stinking it up, early on.

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Definitely, Bo Jackson

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Trevor Francis. Had he not been injured in 1974, Blues may have won the Cup in 1975 - and indeed might have had an outside shot at the League.

Instead we've never been to the Cup semi since and only once finished in the top ten.

Also, had Jim Clark not been killed in 1968 by a deflating tyre, he could well have been F1 world champion every year from then to about 1974.

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Bo, Mattingly, Koufax - all great answers.

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Tony Conigliaro
Herb Score
Bernard King
Mark Fidrych

Definitely Koufax

Last edited on Thu Jun 27th, 2019 12:25 am by WongLee

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Ernie Irvan

Had he not scrambled his brains in a crash at Michigan, Earnhardt would have never came close to 7 championships and Jeff Gordon would have won maybe half of what he did.

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On the basketball front, Sam Bowie and Greg Oden 

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Bobby Orr. If he'd have had a full career the hockey GOAT conversation would be even more interesting.

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Lol @ Ernie Irvan...

His best points finish prior to his injury was 5th.

He would've probably had the same career he had with 5 or 10 more victories along the way.

I don't think he ever would've been champion or seriously contended.
Back to the topic at hand,  Kerry Wood and Mark Prior are intriguing choices.

Last edited on Thu Jun 27th, 2019 02:16 pm by martini

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Don Mattingly was the best 1st baseman in the league at one point and would have lasted longer if he didn't wreck his back.

Ken Griffey Jr. Would have owned the HR record cleanly if he didn't break down in the early 2000s.

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katook wrote: Ernie Irvan

Had he not scrambled his brains in a crash at Michigan, Earnhardt would have never came close to 7 championships and Jeff Gordon would have won maybe half of what he did.

Well, while I agree Ernie would have won more if he hadn't had that wreck at Michigan, Dale already had 6 championships and was in the points lead for the 94 championship (which he won) when Ernie had his crash in August of 94, so let's be honest, Ernie wasn't going to probably prevent Dale from winning any more championships. He may have taken some wins away from Gordon for a few years but Ernie only had 15 career wins and one of those was after the crash. He was never going to win on the level of Gordon..

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Most of my picks were mentioned-

JR Richard
Mark Fidrych
Bo Jackson
Billy Sims
And I'll add Grant Hill.

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JR Richard....forgot all about him.

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Seeing Billy Sims' name reminded me of three other early '80s NFLers: Kellen Winslow Sr., Curt Warner, and Joe Delaney. Had Delaney not died, and Warner not blown out the knee, the AFC West could've been a lot different in the mid-'80s. Winslow went to the HOF but if he hadn't ruined his knee, he would probably be the consensus Best TE of All Time.

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Bernard King. The 2nd scorer Ewing was missing his whole career.

The Knicks could have had a starting 5 of:

Ewing
Oakley
King
Starks
Either Mark Jackson/Rod Strickland

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Lyman Bosto ck More like not getting murdered than not getting injured.Felt he was going to be a star.

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I'll add:

Bill Walton
Yao Ming
Sterling Sharpe

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Joe Montana (major back surgery 1986, shattered elbow in January 1991 NFC title game & botched surgery took him out for 2 seasons and he lost his job)

Gale Sayers (left knee injury)

Bobby Heenan (neck injury in 1982 severely limited his ability to work matches and bump as a manager)

Joe Namath (messed up knees)

Jerry Rice (1997 season where he was dragged down by his facemask on a dirty play by Warren Sapp, tearing his ACL AND MCL. Jerry returned in record time just 15 weeks later!! Paying the eventual Super Bowl champion Broncos on MNF, Jerry ruptered his patella on a TD catch, and even though the Niners won, their season was essentially over.

Steve Young (concussions)

Bill Walton (bad knees)

Brian Pillman (if not for his ankle injury in his Hummer accident, he would of been a money player against Steve Austin, The Rock, and others during the Attitude Era)


Last edited on Fri Jun 28th, 2019 04:08 am by Heenan Fan

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Ken Griffey Jr was my first thought.

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Troy Tulowitski. Totally frustrates fantasy baseball players. Would have been guaranteed a spot in the HOF if not for all the injuries.

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On the other end of the spectrum, imagine how much better Mickey Mantle would've been if he had "perfect health". This is an all-time legend who almost suffered a career-ending injury in his rookie season and was basically never the same again, especially when it came to running. 

Last edited on Fri Jun 28th, 2019 07:22 pm by srossi

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beejmi wrote: Put me down for Eric Lindros

this

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lobo316 wrote: Troy Tulowitski. Totally frustrates fantasy baseball players. Would have been guaranteed a spot in the HOF if not for all the injuries.If you are gonna say Tulo, I have to mention the ‘original Tulo’ - Nomar Garciaparra.  I felt he was head and shoulders above Jeter, and a single notch below pre-Texas A-Rod.  When A-Rod went to Texas just about coincides with Nomar’s demise.  Always wondered if he was on the juice and got off of it, never being the same again.  In the end, I feel that he ended up with the same fate as Grady Sizemore in that he played full throttle all the time and his body just couldn’t take the beating.

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Benlen wrote: I'll add:

Bill Walton
Yao Ming
Sterling Sharpe

Yao is a great choice.

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Bobby Orr. His knees gave out at 27. Guy had just come off a 135 pt season as a defenceman. PLayed 36 games over the next 3 years and was done.

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srossi wrote: On the other end of the spectrum, imagine how much better Mickey Mantle would've been if he had "perfect health". This is an all-time legend who almost suffered a career-ending injury in his rookie season and was basically never the same again, especially when it came to running. 

There's no doubt that if he had a [highlight= rgb(248, 248, 248);]"perfect health" career, he would have beaten Ruth's
record before Aaron. Then the question would have been "Can Aaron beat Mantle's 
record.[highlight= rgb(248, 248, 248);]

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Derrick Rose. Look up injury prone in the dictionary, & you'll see his picture.


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Have we mentioned Christian Okoye? He had a recurring knee injury that slowed him down from 1990 on. Eventually ended his career before the '93 season.

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I wish Buster Posey would not have gotten injured in 2011. If he didn't I don't think the Cardinals would have made the playoff much less win the championship.

Giants finished 3 games behind the Cards .
Posey out for the last 4 months. His replacements hit a combined .201 with 6 HRs and 18 rbis for the rest of the season. Giants had the best pitching in the league with a 2.79 team ERA.

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Benlen wrote: I wish Buster Posey would not have gotten injured in 2011. If he didn't I don't think the Cardinals would have made the playoff much less win the championship.

I wish he hadn't gotten injured because it led to the end of catching and baserunning as we know it.  The rules implemented after that changed the game.

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srossi wrote: Benlen wrote: I wish Buster Posey would not have gotten injured in 2011. If he didn't I don't think the Cardinals would have made the playoff much less win the championship.

I wish he hadn't gotten injured because it led to the end of catching and baserunning as we know it.  The rules implemented after that changed the game.


There's no reason runners should get to roll catchers.  

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Mario Lemieux
Dan Marino
Bo Jackson

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tamalie wrote: Billy Sims

Ralph Sampson

RGIII

Antonio McDyess

Brandon Roy

Paul Gascoigne (English soccer player, and by perfect health I mean not only him not suffering the terrible knee injury in 1991 but also getting ahold of his mental health issues and general fitness with his weight).
RGIII's crappy career has nothing to do with his knee injury. He's an immature narcissist jerk RB pretending to be a QB. He wouldn't of lasted regardless. Not to mention he was an obvious system QB at Baylor.

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Mysterious wrote: Mario Lemieux
Dan Marino
Bo Jackson
Dan Marino's achilles tendon tear in 1993? If so, that injury didn't affect his career at all other than 1 years worth of stats, which is what Marino is known for most: stats and not wins.



Last edited on Sat Jul 13th, 2019 05:45 am by Heenan Fan

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William Andrews was the best RB in football when he almost lost his leg in the 1984 preseason. Think about that for a second - statistically and by opponents’ opinion, this guy was as good as Earl Campbell in his prime, better than Eric Dickerson, and could catch passes better than Marcus Allen. He was out two full years, and came back in 1986 as a RB/TE and while a shell of his former self, he still contributed positively. RBs wore down quickly, but five years into his career and each year improved on the last? Four All-Pro selections in five years, much more impressive than the Pro Bowl.

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Heenan Fan wrote: Mysterious wrote: Mario Lemieux
Dan Marino
Bo Jackson
Dan Marino's achilles tendon tear in 1993? If so, that injury didn't affect his career at all other than 1 years worth of stats, which is what Marino is known for most: stats and not wins.



His knee injury at Pitt no doubt hampered his overall ability.  Take that back, and who knows how much more he could do?   Give him even one more step of mobility and you might have never made a big deal out of John Elway.

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Heenan Fan wrote: Mysterious wrote: Mario Lemieux
Dan Marino
Bo Jackson
Dan Marino's achilles tendon tear in 1993? If so, that injury didn't affect his career at all other than 1 years worth of stats, which is what Marino is known for most: stats and not wins.




Came into the NFL with bad knees that needed draining every year and surgery in some years. Played the last 5 years on 1 leg because of the achillies tear and still won games with a shitty team and basic offensive play scheme.

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Bobby Orr. If not for his knees could have maybe played another 10 years. What if.....

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I know Marino had issues but I think he was a victim of a poor front office and bad timing. The Fins were never going to win it all without a good running back. The fins had plenty of years to trade for or draft a good running back and didn’t unless I am missing someone.

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Jeff Fuller. Niner linebacker/safety. Suffered a spinal injury in a game vs the Patriots in 1989. Lost use of his right arm. Niners gave him a lifetime front office job.



Steve Young. Never played again after getting kicked in the head.

Last edited on Mon Jul 15th, 2019 05:55 am by Benlen

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Fuller is a good one I forgot about him.

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Superstar wrote: Heenan Fan wrote: Mysterious wrote: Mario Lemieux
Dan Marino
Bo Jackson
Dan Marino's achilles tendon tear in 1993? If so, that injury didn't affect his career at all other than 1 years worth of stats, which is what Marino is known for most: stats and not wins.



His knee injury at Pitt no doubt hampered his overall ability.  Take that back, and who knows how much more he could do?   Give him even one more step of mobility and you might have never made a big deal out of John Elway.

All the knees in the world doesn't make someone clutch.  Elway was a winner.  Marino liked putting up numbers.  Elway dragged some awful Broncos teams deep into the playoffs and the Super Bowl single-handedly, and then as soon as he got a team around him he won 2 in a row.  Marino was never going to make people forget about Elway. 

Last edited on Mon Jul 15th, 2019 03:39 pm by srossi

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The knee is not an excuse for Marino. Lest we forget: Elway had a bum knee from a high school injury that affected his entire career. It's the reason he always had/has that funny little hitch. He played his entire college and NFL with a gimpy knee...and still performed exceptionally well in both the passing and running game (ask Joey Browner about the former).

Had Elway NOT had that gimpy knee-- who knows?

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I had forgotten about Marino's Terry Gordy knees. They did affect his mobility, although I don't think his lack of mobility was much of a problem since he was one of the best pocket passers in NFL history. Marino's problem was, although he was a great passer, he was an average QB. He was a narcissist who constantly yelled and blamed his teammates for his own shortcomings and he supposedly didn't want Don Shula to draft a RB, probably out of ego. Marino once threw 7 pics in a single game against Dallas. The great ones never throw 4, let alone 7.

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Benlen wrote: Jeff Fuller. Niner linebacker/safety. Suffered a spinal injury in a game vs the Patriots in 1989. Lost use of his right arm. Niners gave him a lifetime front office job.



Steve Young. Never played again after getting kicked in the head.

Aeneas Williams, one of the dirtiest cheap shot artists in NFL history ended Steve's career after another douche bag Lawrence Phillips failed to pick up a CB blitz. It was on MNF for all the world to see. Steve was knocked out cold and never played another down.

Jeff Fuller was a bad-ass Safety/ILB hybrid who was just coming into his own. Great guy.

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That was a clean hit on Steve no fault of Williams.

I didn’t list Montana or Young in this thread even though I was a mega 9er fan growing up because they are hall of fame players even though I would have loved to see them both play longer.

I’d list Marcus Allen being injured by Al Davis’s decisions before I’d list them.

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Franchise wrote: That was a clean hit on Steve no fault of Williams.

I didn’t list Montana or Young in this thread even though I was a mega 9er fan growing up because they are hall of fame players even though I would have loved to see them both play longer.

I’d list Marcus Allen being injured by Al Davis’s decisions before I’d list them.
Bullshit. He had a clean run and made the conscious decision to lower his head and take him out. It may of been technically not a penalty but it was dirty. Another reason why, as much as I respect Tom Brady, he simply did not play in the same NFL as his predecessors. Montana and Young are exhibit A & B on this. Brady played in an era where if a pass rusher cuts a fart within 5 yards of the QB, it's a 15 yard penalty.

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That’s how people were taught to hit back then as much as people want to look back and apply today’s rules to the past it’s not possible.


As far as Brady v Montana or Young I agree it’s apples to oranges and Montana will always be the greatest to me.

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I'm not looking back at jackshit. I watched the game in real time and I pointed out specifically that it wasn't a play to draw a penalty for the era. It was still a dirty play. It's Douche Bag Williams for cryin' out loud, legit one of the dirtiest cheap shot artists in his era.

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It’s not a dirty hit for the time.



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