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srossi

 

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Probably the most anticipated WWE PPV of the year due to the involvement of NXT.  We have tons of Raw vs. SD! vs. NXT 3-ways, we have an NXT title match of Adam Cole vs. Pete Dunne that could be the show-stealer if given the time, and we have two World title matches that no doubt will be disastrously booked and piss off everyone (Brock Lesnar vs. Rey Misterio and Bray Wyatt vs. Daniel Bryan).  This is going to be a VERY long night once again with 10 matches announced and two of them being 15-person elimination tag matches which really both need to go almost an hour each to mean anything.

The Kick-Off Show is on now.  Shawn Michaels just announced Team NXT and it's the absolute best unbooked talent they have to offer with Tomasso Ciampa, WALTER, Damian Priest, Matt Riddle, and Keith Lee.  HHH mentioned last night that they were holding off on announcing their team partially due to Creative but mostly to make sure everyone escaped last night healthy and they wouldn't have to make last-minute substitutions. 

We have 3 pre-show matches coming up shortly.

Last edited on Sun Nov 24th, 2019 09:35 pm by srossi

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Rhea Ripley and HHH just announced the female version of Team NXT.  Joining Ripley is Io Shirai, Candice LeRae, Bianca Belair, and Toni Storm.  Another awesome team.

It's really a shame that Mr. NXT Johnny Gargano is missing this weekend.  That sucks.

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We kicked things off with an unadvertised tag team battle royal featuring the Raw, SD!, and NXT mid-card tag teams.

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Robert Roode and Dolphi Ziggler of SD! win the battle royal, last eliminating the Street Prophets from Raw. NXT were all gone early.  The Street Prophets should've won early.  Roode and Ziggler are dead men walking and there's no benefit to kinda sorta pushing them as a team right now.

Last edited on Sun Nov 24th, 2019 10:20 pm by srossi

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It's time for the Cruiserweight title match with Lio Rush (NXT) defending against Akira Tozawa (Raw) and Kalisto (SD!). If you thought all 3 guys were just on 205 Live anyway, then you look pretty stupid right now.

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Lio Rush pins Kalisto to retain in a decent but short match. Tozawa and Kalisto have been getting zero push to the point that I didn't even know what brands they were on, so this outcome was never in doubt.

Last edited on Sun Nov 24th, 2019 10:31 pm by srossi

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Final pre-show match will be the Tag team champions 3-way. This is way too good to be off the main show. It's New Day (Raw) vs. Viking Raiders (SD!) vs. Undisputed Era (NXT). Undisputed Era so deserve this but probably won't get it.

Last edited on Sun Nov 24th, 2019 10:36 pm by srossi

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Viking Raiders win when Aybar pins Bobby Fish. It was a great match and didn't lose anything by being on the pre-show. The fans were clearly rooting for the Undisputed Era but at one point gave all 3 teams a standing ovation.

The pre-show ends predictably with each brand having 1 win apiece.

Last edited on Sun Nov 24th, 2019 10:54 pm by srossi

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We begin with the women's Survivor Series match. We'll see how long this goes with up to 14 potential eliminations to be had.

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In a 35-minute match, Team NXT dominates with Ripley, LeRae, and Shirai all surviving. LeRae and Shirai faked a collision and injuries early and were escorted to the back only to return at the end.  Belair was the MVP of the match scoring several early eliminations and making it deep into the match.   It took a sharpshooter and Bank statement double submission to get Storm to tap out.  So all of the NXT women were super protected in this one.

Asuka turned on Charlotte, spitting mist in her face to cause her elimination and then walking out on Team Raw.

At the end Sasha Banks was alone with the 3 NXT women and Ripley beat her.

Very solid opener.

Last edited on Sun Nov 24th, 2019 11:41 pm by srossi

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Backstage Rollins demands Owens tell him if his loyalty lies with Raw or with NXT. Owens says NXT doesn't need him but Raw desperately does and he's Team Raw. He tells Rollins not to question him and he's been disloyal too, then walks out on him.

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It's time for a potential great one: I-C champ Shinsuke Nakamura vs. U.S. champ A.J. Styles vs. North American champ Roderick Strong. You don't get 3 better wrestlers than this so hopefully they can make this click.  Nakamura needs this win the most.

Last edited on Sun Nov 24th, 2019 11:46 pm by srossi

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Any idea when Brock versus Rey is?

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Just catching up now.  Solid mid-card title match here.

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Strong pins Nakamura after AJ hits the forearm.  Good match, crummy 3-way match ending.

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carpetbeggar wrote: Any idea when Brock versus Rey isBrock fought Goldberg in the last match a few years ago.  Survivor Series is Brock vs. old WCW guy again.

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Strong steals the win pinning Nakamura after Styles nailed him with the Phenomenal Forearm. Crowd ate that up. NXT being pushed strong (no pun intended). Decent match but Styles and Nakamura have still never clicked like you'd expect.

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WWE Masters of the Universe toy commercial.  They are definitely targeting people in their 40's with that one. 

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The Miz tries to give Daniel Bryan a pep talk backstage and begs him to put a stop to The Fiend.  Bryan tells him to get out of his face.

It's time for the NXT title match of Adam Cole vs. Pete Dunne.  Cole is calling the match with Nigel and Beth because Mauro Ranallo lost his voice last night.

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Who was that freak in the ring when Adam Cole was introduced?
He looks deformed

Last edited on Mon Nov 25th, 2019 12:13 am by carpetbeggar

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Adam Cole, while very talented, has the skinniest arms since James Ellsworth.

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That Pete Dunne dude looks like he is wearing a woman's bathing suit. A most unusual looking fellow.

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WWE’s camera work is ruining Dunne’s offense because they’re not used to shooting snug strikes and joint manipulation. They’re really clueless.  You don’t need to jerk the camera all over the place and and give the viewers seizures when the talent know how to work. 

Last edited on Mon Nov 25th, 2019 12:18 am by srossi

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carpetbeggar wrote: That Pete Dunne dude looks like he is wearing a woman's bathing suit. A most unusual looking fellow.Yeah, he's not a huge guy either, and his hair seems like it's always covering his face.  I think they could have slipped him into the women's elimination match and no one would have noticed it was a guy for the first 10 minutes or so.

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In a week of old school announcers making dated jokes, Twitter is absolutely killing Jerry Lawler right now for shaming Roderick Strong for growing up in a trailer park. He might as well have used the N word. People want him gone.

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Cole beats Dunne in a good match but one that fell short of the greatest Takeover bouts from the past few years.

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Next up is Bray Wyatt vs. Daniel Bryan. I can't even imagine how they will book this, or how out of place this nonsense might be on a weekend filled with spectacular wrestling.

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srossi wrote: In a week of old school announcers making dated jokes, Twitter is absolutely killing Jerry Lawler right now for shaming Roderick Strong for growing up in a trailer park. He might as well have used the N word. People want him gone.Yeah, the current culture is far too sensitive for Lawler's joke book.  This is the same current wrestling fan base who periodically enjoy hijacking shows with their goofiness.  How about trying to enjoy the product for what it is?  I guess I'm getting old.

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They continue to bathe these matches in red light that makes it impossible to see just because Vince thinks it looks like a horror movie. Wake me up when this shit is over.

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Wyatt pins Bryan with the mandible claw. Bryan tried hard and the fans were going crazy for him, but this was subpar compared to everything else we've seen and had a predictable finish.

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They hype Austin's interview with The Undertaker premiering right after Survivor Series. This is just about the first shoot interview 'Taker has ever done.

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It's time for the men's Survivor Series match. I have high expectations for this. The fans in Chicago HATE Seth Rollins almost as much as Baron Corbin. This is an NXT crowd no doubt, but NXT can't possibly win again.  Raw should get this victory, and SD! is just an incredibly weak team that should be decimated but probably won't be booked that way.

Last edited on Mon Nov 25th, 2019 12:58 am by srossi

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Eliminations coming way too quick in this one. Huge stars getting pinned after 1 move.

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Now a weird count out in a 3-way to get rid of Strowman. This match sucks. No one is able to look good so far.

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srossi wrote: Eliminations coming way too quick in this one. Huge stars getting pinned after 1 move.Yeah, they are rushing just like the Alliance vs. the Mercenaries from '90 lol.  They feel like they've gotta hurry up and people who have been kicking out of everything all year going down easy.



Last edited on Mon Nov 25th, 2019 01:24 am by Boz1515

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In the end it came down to Reigns, Rollins, and Ciampa/Lee. Reigns and Rollins teamed up to eliminate Ciampa. Lee scored a huge upset by eliminating Rollins. Reigns pinned Lee in a good but predictable exchange.  Team SD! wins despite having a pitiful team on paper.

Those 4 guys shined but everyone else got buried. WWE just doesn't understand how much it kills people like WALTER and even Orton to be pinned so easily in matches like this.  The top stars for the women were mostly protected, but so many top guys came out of this looking awful.

Last edited on Mon Nov 25th, 2019 01:32 am by srossi

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2 matches left and it is 9:40 ET.  How much time will they give Lesnar and Mysterio?

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Rey comes out dressed like Doink the Clown.

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Lesnar vs Misterio up next and I expect the entrances to last longer than the match. Honestly this has been a long show with a lot of talent so we don't need this one to be long.

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Boz1515 wrote: Rey comes out dressed like Doink the Clown.

One of the clowns in AAA, I think Psycho Clown, basically wears that mask.  Interesting choice.

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Doink Mysterio Jr

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Another squash win for Lesnar, but extended slightly with the cool hope spot of Dominick running in and the two beating Lesnar with chairs and executing a double 619 and then they both hit frog splashes. In the end though, same result in a matter of minutes.

Last edited on Mon Nov 25th, 2019 01:54 am by srossi

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Rey should beat Dominick with that pipe for that. It was Dominick's fault Rey lost that match. That fucking Dominick.

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Franchise wrote: Doink Mysterio Jr

:)

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carpetbeggar wrote: Rey should beat Dominick with that pipe for that. It was Dominick's fault Rey lost that match.LOL

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Women's champions 3-way ends the show with Becky Lynch (Raw) vs. Bayley (SD!) vs. Shayna Bazsler (NXT). Odd choice to main event but I guess Becky is still WWE's top star by default.

Last edited on Mon Nov 25th, 2019 02:00 am by srossi

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Well, I'm done with the PPV. I saw all what I wanted to. Except for that Dominick beaten by his Father.

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Baszler taps out Bayley after knocking out Becky with a powerbomb through a table to win the match and the night for NXT.  They put NXT over huge to say the least tonight.

The final score: NXT -4, SD! - 2, Raw - 1

Last edited on Mon Nov 25th, 2019 02:24 am by srossi

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Lynch throws a fit post-match and attacks Baszler and leaves her laying.  The show ends with her music playing.  That seems like small consolation. 

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I’m not very creative so maybe I’m missing something here but exactly what does NXT coming out on top at Survivor Series accomplish?


On one hand it legitimizes them as equal to the main rosters but on the other hand it makes the main rosters look weak. Unless the E plans on sending some of the talent on the main rosters packing and elevating NXT talent I’m not really seeing the purpose.


I actually watched both “PPV’s” this weekend and enjoyed them I just don’t see where they go from here. Even if they continue to cross over regularly I don’t really see how it helps anyone other than NXT if everyone stays. Is pumping up NXT the top priority even at the expense of Smackdown and Raw because they are the only one with head to head competition?

Last edited on Mon Nov 25th, 2019 07:05 am by Franchise

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Apparently Vince is very high on Keith Lee after this weekend. It was nice knowing you, Keith. A big shame, because he was my favorite current wrestler. He could well end up headlining WrestleMania, but I can't be bothered with the traditional two years of shit booking he'll get after his initial main roster push is over.

Last edited on Mon Nov 25th, 2019 11:01 am by Kriss

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Kriss wrote: Apparently Vince is very high on Keith Lee after this weekend. It was nice knowing you, Keith. A big shame, because he was my favorite current wrestler. He could well end up headlining WrestleMania, but I can't be bothered with the traditional two years of shit booking he'll get after his initial main roster push is over.
He's a big, athletic, charismatic guy and there aren't too many around with that combination anymore.  And the cynic in me can't help but think that him being black after the ACH stuff is another plus.

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Franchise wrote: I’m not very creative so maybe I’m missing something here but exactly what does NXT coming out on top at Survivor Series accomplish?


On one hand it legitimizes them as equal to the main rosters but on the other hand it makes the main rosters look weak. Unless the E plans on sending some of the talent on the main rosters packing and elevating NXT talent I’m not really seeing the purpose.


I actually watched both “PPV’s” this weekend and enjoyed them I just don’t see where they go from here. Even if they continue to cross over regularly I don’t really see how it helps anyone other than NXT if everyone stays. Is pumping up NXT the top priority even at the expense of Smackdown and Raw because they are the only one with head to head competition?

I hope they don't continue the cross-overs, although I feel like they almost have to now.  But what the hell happens to the other 80% of the Raw and SD! rosters?  Between the main guys they always push and all the NXT talent, half the company won't be getting TV time now, and so many are already unhappy.

They needed to establish NXT though with that show now being a USA property in a war with AEW.  The problem is they have to make too many people happy now.  FOX isn't thrilled with them at all, but they can only get over so much at one time, even if they do things well (and they rarely do things well).

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I didn’t read the spoilers, but is this show worth watching?

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Vintage Wrestling wrote: I didn’t read the spoilers, but is this show worth watching?
Yes.  One of the better WWE PPVs you'll see.

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srossi wrote: Vintage Wrestling wrote: I didn’t read the spoilers, but is this show worth watching?
Yes.  One of the better WWE PPVs you'll see.
Ok thanks. I’ll check it out later this week 

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Franchise wrote: I’m not very creative so maybe I’m missing something here but exactly what does NXT coming out on top at Survivor Series accomplish?
Vince fears the Khan.

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Heenan Fan wrote: Franchise wrote: I’m not very creative so maybe I’m missing something here but exactly what does NXT coming out on top at Survivor Series accomplish?
Vince fears the Khan.


Maybe more of Triple taking the creative lead in between Crown Jewel and Survivor Series.

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Kriss wrote: Heenan Fan wrote: Franchise wrote: I’m not very creative so maybe I’m missing something here but exactly what does NXT coming out on top at Survivor Series accomplish?
Vince fears the Khan.


Maybe more of Triple taking the creative lead in between Crown Jewel and Survivor Series.
I never thought I'd say this just 5 years ago or so, but let's hope so.

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srossi wrote: Franchise wrote: I’m not very creative so maybe I’m missing something here but exactly what does NXT coming out on top at Survivor Series accomplish?


On one hand it legitimizes them as equal to the main rosters but on the other hand it makes the main rosters look weak. Unless the E plans on sending some of the talent on the main rosters packing and elevating NXT talent I’m not really seeing the purpose.


I actually watched both “PPV’s” this weekend and enjoyed them I just don’t see where they go from here. Even if they continue to cross over regularly I don’t really see how it helps anyone other than NXT if everyone stays. Is pumping up NXT the top priority even at the expense of Smackdown and Raw because they are the only one with head to head competition?

I hope they don't continue the cross-overs, although I feel like they almost have to now.  But what the hell happens to the other 80% of the Raw and SD! rosters?  Between the main guys they always push and all the NXT talent, half the company won't be getting TV time now, and so many are already unhappy.

They needed to establish NXT though with that show now being a USA property in a war with AEW.  The problem is they have to make too many people happy now.  FOX isn't thrilled with them at all, but they can only get over so much at one time, even if they do things well (and they rarely do things well).

So post-Survivor Series, they re-booted Raw as much as they could without shifting any new talent.  They turned Rollins heel and Orton face, re-introduced Aleister Black and AOP, gave Misterio the U.S. title (which is the top title on the brand 90% of the time when Lesnar isn't there), put Matt Hardy back on TV (even if it was to get squashed), and reconfirmed a push for Buddy Murphy.  It looks like we might be heading towards a top heel faction of Rollins and AOP. 

All in all, it was one of the top 5 Raws of 2019 filled with some good, long matches and some directionless guys looking like they might have direction again.  But in 3 weeks when ratings are the same, does everything get thrown out the window once more for some cross-over hotshot bullshit?  

Last edited on Tue Nov 26th, 2019 01:41 pm by srossi

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They could conceivably heavily cross-promote for the Rumble. I guarantee Vince has no idea why the NXT guys were hugely over, but when NXT talent are promoted, they find it difficult to get over, if they ever do.

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Anyone mind if hijack the discussion for a moment for a question from someone uneducated on the current product?

No? Too bad, I'm going to ask anyway. I haven't watched one of these in awhile...

How the hell do they book the survivor matches that have three different teams with five guys each? Are there three guys in the ring at all times? And then if someone gets eliminated the team sends anyone in to replace them, and they keep going until one team is totally eliminated and then the remaining two teams battle in a regular match? I've never liked triple threat matches anyway, but this sounds like a clusterfuck.

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Blazer wrote: Anyone mind if hijack the discussion for a moment for a question from someone uneducated on the current product?

No? Too bad, I'm going to ask anyway. I haven't watched one of these in awhile...

How the hell do they book the survivor matches that have three different teams with five guys each? Are there three guys in the ring at all times? And then if someone gets eliminated the team sends anyone in to replace them, and they keep going until one team is totally eliminated and then the remaining two teams battle in a regular match? I've never liked triple threat matches anyway, but this sounds like a clusterfuck.

Yes, 3 men in at all times, when someone is eliminated a member of the losing team replaces him. Count outs became super ridiculous because there are no count outs in 3-ways (and someone is ALWAYS taking a powder on the outside for 5 minutes while the other 2 fight). That happened here too, except when they needed to eliminate Strowman by count out and magically there was a count for the only time in 3-way history. 

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I thought it was a pretty good show overall, I'm surprised it gave RAW no bump in the ratings last night.



Last edited on Wed Nov 27th, 2019 01:56 am by Heenan Fan

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Thanks Rossi.  I guess that 3-in-the-ring is most logical, although the triple threat matches themselves have always seemed illogical, even though they make for some cool spots.  I recall WCW triple threat tags when they first started in the mid 90s, and there would only be two people in the ring at any time, and you could tag out to anyone, which made little sense.  Why would you ever tag out to another team and take away your chance to win a match?  Anyway, moral of the story is that I’m out of the loop.



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