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 Posted: Tue Jul 14th, 2020 10:19 pm
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srossi

 

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PWInsider:

The 7/13 edition of Raw brought in 1,561,000 overnight viewers, down from the 1,687,000 overnight viewers that they drew the previous week.  That is their all time low number of the modern era.  It will interesting to see what happens if/when live sports return next month.



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 Posted: Wed Jul 15th, 2020 12:53 am
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BuddyPSHayes



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Vince has always maintained that "real" sports aren't his competition, but he'll have his hands full with all four major sports leagues going at once. (hopefully)



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 Posted: Wed Jul 15th, 2020 01:07 am
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srossi

 

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BuddyPSHayes wrote: Vince has always maintained that "real" sports aren't his competition, but he'll have his hands full with all four major sports leagues going at once. (hopefully)
Does it even matter though?  Anyone who had any interest in WWE has certainly had every opportunity to watch these past few months. They didn’t. I don’t see that changing regardless of competition and I don’t think it’s bouncing back once they go back to arenas. They are so lucky they have 4 1/2 years to figure this out because if their TV deals were up this October instead of last they’d be in serious trouble. 



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 Posted: Wed Jul 15th, 2020 02:51 am
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Boz1515



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srossi wrote: BuddyPSHayes wrote: Vince has always maintained that "real" sports aren't his competition, but he'll have his hands full with all four major sports leagues going at once. (hopefully)
Does it even matter though?  Anyone who had any interest in WWE has certainly had every opportunity to watch these past few months. They didn’t. I don’t see that changing regardless of competition and I don’t think it’s bouncing back once they go back to arenas. They are so lucky they have 4 1/2 years to figure this out because if their TV deals were up this October instead of last they’d be in serious trouble. 


Agreed.  The lack of interest could be for a number of reasons.  Personally, I think the biggest problem is that the formula is wrong.  Intentionally going out of their way to not allow stars to get bigger than the company makes everyone look like a different shade of mediocre.


I find it ironic that the theme song to Raw is called Legendary, but I can't remember a time in the company's history where it was harder to carve out a legacy and become legendary lol.






Last edited on Wed Jul 15th, 2020 02:57 am by Boz1515

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 Posted: Wed Jul 15th, 2020 03:01 am
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Heenan Fan
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Boz1515 wrote: srossi wrote: BuddyPSHayes wrote: Vince has always maintained that "real" sports aren't his competition, but he'll have his hands full with all four major sports leagues going at once. (hopefully)
Does it even matter though?  Anyone who had any interest in WWE has certainly had every opportunity to watch these past few months. They didn’t. I don’t see that changing regardless of competition and I don’t think it’s bouncing back once they go back to arenas. They are so lucky they have 4 1/2 years to figure this out because if their TV deals were up this October instead of last they’d be in serious trouble. 


Agreed.  The lack of interest could be for a number of reasons.  Personally, I think the biggest problem is that the formula is wrong.  Intentionally going out of their way to not allow stars to get bigger than the company makes everyone look like a different shade of mediocre.


I find it ironic that the theme song to Raw is called Legendary, but I can't remember a time in the company's history where it was harder to carve out a legacy and become legendary lol.






Spot on. Vince is like the young scorned lover who got hurt and is afraid to love again. Nothing is going to change for the better anytime soon either.



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 Posted: Wed Jul 15th, 2020 04:12 am
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Seems that a lot of people just watch the news and use social media these days. Not sure how a 3 hour wrestling show competes with that.



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 Posted: Wed Jul 15th, 2020 04:36 am
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srossi

 

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Kriss wrote: Seems that a lot of people just watch the news and use social media these days. Not sure how a 3 hour wrestling show competes with that.
People still watch football and other sports for 3 hours, not like they once did maybe, but a hell of lot more than a million people.  And social media and phones have been around for a decade.  AEW is retaining a very nice young demo that would be more into their phones than the typical older WWE fan, so I feel like these are excuses and the bottom line is that the product sucks and has sucked for a very long time. 

10-15 years ago everyone was saying WWE needed to build for the future or they'd be in trouble.  That future is now, and they have not one legitimate full-time star left on the roster.  Not one.  Cena barely qualified a few years ago, he was more like a big star by default but certainly couldn't compare to Hogan, Austin, Rock, etc.  But he got the 2000s pop, nothing by the standards of earlier eras, but grading on a curve it was semi-acceptable.  Then it degraded further after him to the point that Reigns has to be seen as a total bust to the point that despite his push for several years he wouldn't possibly qualify for any legitimate list of top 100 stars in WWE history, maybe not even top 200.  Now the shows are dominated by Drew McIntyre who has to be the worst main eventer in WWE history.  There have been worse of course that they've given short runs to, but as far as building a show around one guy every wekk, they might as well have picked randomly out of a hat and chosen one of the Forgotten Sons.  He's dominated every Raw for 3 months now and to call it an unmitigated disaster both creatively and ratings-wise would be far too kind. 

Everyone kept saying for more than a decade, "What happens when these guys retire and stop coming back even for one-off appearances?"  And that day is now.  If Undertaker ever comes back, he might have 1 match left.  Lesnar isn't going to do this much longer either and his box office has diminished over the years so it barely registers anymore anyway.  Just about everyone else physically can't do it anymore, even for a short comedy match I can't see a scenario of Hogan, Flair, Foley, etc. ever getting back into the ring.  They ruined HBK's retirement by bringing him back for the Saudi Arabia show and he embarrassed himself beyond the worst expectations to the point that I can't imagine anyone ever paying to see him if they try to do it again.  If Goldberg ever has another match, you just have to pray he doesn't legitimately kill someone because he was reckless in his prime and is now a tragic death waiting to happen.  Even Styles and Bryan are about to retire, and they're "kids" compared to everyone else.  Jericho is the closest thing to a bonafide superstar in the business today and they let him go to the competition, so are they just going to wait until his contract is up and then hand the company over to him along with a ridiculously inflated deal to him in the hopes that he can save them at 52 or 53 years old?  That's pretty much where we're at.  I see no attempts at trying to create stars amongst the guys currently on the roster other than McIntyre, who was DOA. 

Last edited on Wed Jul 15th, 2020 04:40 am by srossi



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 Posted: Wed Jul 15th, 2020 12:24 pm
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Heenan Fan wrote: Boz1515 wrote: srossi wrote: BuddyPSHayes wrote: Vince has always maintained that "real" sports aren't his competition, but he'll have his hands full with all four major sports leagues going at once. (hopefully)
Does it even matter though?  Anyone who had any interest in WWE has certainly had every opportunity to watch these past few months. They didn’t. I don’t see that changing regardless of competition and I don’t think it’s bouncing back once they go back to arenas. They are so lucky they have 4 1/2 years to figure this out because if their TV deals were up this October instead of last they’d be in serious trouble. 


Agreed.  The lack of interest could be for a number of reasons.  Personally, I think the biggest problem is that the formula is wrong.  Intentionally going out of their way to not allow stars to get bigger than the company makes everyone look like a different shade of mediocre.


I find it ironic that the theme song to Raw is called Legendary, but I can't remember a time in the company's history where it was harder to carve out a legacy and become legendary lol.






Spot on. Vince is like the young scorned lover who got hurt and is afraid to love again. Nothing is going to change for the better anytime soon either.

Funny part about this concept is that more wrestlers are into acting now than at any time in the past. Not allowing the talent to get too big so they don’t leave hasn’t affected a good number of wrestlers from dipping their toe into the acting pool one bit. 



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 Posted: Wed Jul 15th, 2020 05:40 pm
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Kriss wrote: Seems that a lot of people just watch the news and use social media these days. Not sure how a 3 hour wrestling show competes with that.
Besides the fact I'm enjoying the show a lot now one of the reasons I enjoy AEW so much each week is it flies by..it's 2 hours but feels like at least half that. I took Raw and Smackdown totally off my DVR scheduler a few months ago because they were a CHORE to watch even fast forwarding through them after they had recorded...



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 Posted: Wed Jul 15th, 2020 06:43 pm
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Married Jo wrote: Kriss wrote: Seems that a lot of people just watch the news and use social media these days. Not sure how a 3 hour wrestling show competes with that.
Besides the fact I'm enjoying the show a lot now one of the reasons I enjoy AEW so much each week is it flies by..it's 2 hours but feels like at least half that. I took Raw and Smackdown totally off my DVR scheduler a few months ago because they were a CHORE to watch even fast forwarding through them after they had recorded...


I think a lot of the credit for that goes to the commentary team. Tony has been fantastic since day one, and I think JR suddenly turned on when AEW got their legit TV deal. He was phoning it in at the beginning, but I don't think there's been a better commentary team in 20 years than what AEW has now.



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 Posted: Wed Jul 15th, 2020 06:54 pm
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Kriss wrote: Married Jo wrote: Kriss wrote: Seems that a lot of people just watch the news and use social media these days. Not sure how a 3 hour wrestling show competes with that.
Besides the fact I'm enjoying the show a lot now one of the reasons I enjoy AEW so much each week is it flies by..it's 2 hours but feels like at least half that. I took Raw and Smackdown totally off my DVR scheduler a few months ago because they were a CHORE to watch even fast forwarding through them after they had recorded...


I think a lot of the credit for that goes to the commentary team. Tony has been fantastic since day one, and I think JR suddenly turned on when AEW got their legit TV deal. He was phoning it in at the beginning, but I don't think there's been a better commentary team in 20 years than what AEW has now.
+3



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 Posted: Thu Jul 16th, 2020 03:14 am
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srossi

 

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Kriss wrote: Married Jo wrote: Kriss wrote: Seems that a lot of people just watch the news and use social media these days. Not sure how a 3 hour wrestling show competes with that.
Besides the fact I'm enjoying the show a lot now one of the reasons I enjoy AEW so much each week is it flies by..it's 2 hours but feels like at least half that. I took Raw and Smackdown totally off my DVR scheduler a few months ago because they were a CHORE to watch even fast forwarding through them after they had recorded...


I think a lot of the credit for that goes to the commentary team. Tony has been fantastic since day one, and I think JR suddenly turned on when AEW got their legit TV deal. He was phoning it in at the beginning, but I don't think there's been a better commentary team in 20 years than what AEW has now.

And Jericho on commentary is just gold. Tonight he had one line that I thought was the best by a commentator I heard all year, then 10 minutes later topped. It’s just an entertaining show filled with people who seem to be having fun. WWE is the meeting that you boss calls on a Friday afternoon that everyone dreads going to all day. And they just don’t get it because they have Michael Cole supervising all the announcers and insisting that they all sound like they’re reading a financial statement for hours on end. Kevin Dunn just loves the guy, and he’s ruined the entire announce team beyond repair. 

Last edited on Thu Jul 16th, 2020 03:16 am by srossi



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 Posted: Thu Jul 16th, 2020 10:49 pm
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srossi wrote:
10-15 years ago everyone was saying WWE needed to build for the future or they'd be in trouble.  That future is now, and they have not one legitimate full-time star left on the roster.  Not one. 
And yet they've had several.  Every time they've fucked up the booking.  Daniel Bryan.  Instead of putting a rocket on him, they jobbed him in 18 seconds to Sheamus.  Cesaro.  How many times have they destroyed him in booking?  Kofi Kingston became a star 10 years too late.  They buried Nexus senselessly when they were the most interesting thing that had happened in a decade.  Heck, even in the Legacy days, the crowd was dying to see DiBiase turn face on Orton...and they didn't pull the trigger.
There must be loads of others I've forgotten.  Even in tag teams they split up Rusev Day and Cryme Tyme for literally no reason at all, and those decisions destroyed four careers.
That's leaving aside the booking. Just now.  Cameron Grimes defeats Damien Priest and Finn Balor, so fine, push him to a title shot.  Oh, no, can't do that, got to give Balor and Priest their wins back.  Fuck's sake.



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 Posted: Thu Jul 16th, 2020 11:55 pm
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kargol wrote: srossi wrote:
10-15 years ago everyone was saying WWE needed to build for the future or they'd be in trouble.  That future is now, and they have not one legitimate full-time star left on the roster.  Not one. 
And yet they've had several.  Every time they've fucked up the booking.  Daniel Bryan.  Instead of putting a rocket on him, they jobbed him in 18 seconds to Sheamus.  Cesaro.  How many times have they destroyed him in booking?  Kofi Kingston became a star 10 years too late.  They buried Nexus senselessly when they were the most interesting thing that had happened in a decade.  Heck, even in the Legacy days, the crowd was dying to see DiBiase turn face on Orton...and they didn't pull the trigger.
There must be loads of others I've forgotten.  Even in tag teams they split up Rusev Day and Cryme Tyme for literally no reason at all, and those decisions destroyed four careers.
That's leaving aside the booking. Just now.  Cameron Grimes defeats Damien Priest and Finn Balor, so fine, push him to a title shot.  Oh, no, can't do that, got to give Balor and Priest their wins back.  Fuck's sake.

Oh there’s a million examples. From Wade Barrett to Shinsuke Nakamura and so many guys in between. He’ll, going back to 2001 the fans were ready to treat RVD like the next Steve Austin and they didn’t pull the trigger on that until that push until maybe 4 years too late. 

And that’s not even counting all the guys that could’ve been credible mid-carders for a decade that they destroyed. It’s only been a year that the Street Profits started getting over more than they had any right to, and look at them now. Fandango was never going to be World champ, but he could’ve been a fun mid-carder living off of that gimmick for ages just like The Godfather, then they absolutely buried him shortly after making Jericho job to him.


By the time the current incarnation of NXT started churning out established indy stars, WWE should’ve had an embarrassment of riches up and down the card, from 10 legit main eventers to dozens of solidly over mid and lower cars guys, and their biggest problem should’ve been finding room for all the new talent. Instead... 

Last edited on Fri Jul 17th, 2020 12:04 am by srossi



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 Posted: Fri Jul 17th, 2020 02:26 am
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The main roster guys all wrestle, talk, and act the same. That's the way Vince wants it. Interchangeable. No one person truly breaks out so WWE isn't dependent on 1 wrestler because god forbid anyone gets any leverage.

NXT you get to fuck around a bit at least.

1 advantage AEW has is the make a big deal about W/L records. Leads to less 50/50 booking. 1 graphic sets the stage for how a wrestler is perceived by the audience.

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