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 Posted: Sun Jul 26th, 2020 11:55 am
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Kriss
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Not really worthy of its own thread, but I'm too lazy to wade through the pages looking for an already open AJ thread.

AJ has been vocal this week about Paul Heyman's role in the Good Brothers being fired, Heyman being a liar and Styles moving to SmackDown to get away from Heyman.

The #1 contenders match for his title on Friday featured three guys who are not over at all, Gran Metalik, Lince Dorade and Shorty G, and also Drew Gulak, who is marginally over. Four great wrestlers, but they have barely had a push between them for the past 4 years. This is typical WWE booking. Book a multi-man contenders match with no build featuring no one who deserves a title shot. Metalik won, but it doesn't really do anything for him, because he didn't beat anyone worth beating. The other three move backwards. They are also doing the same thing on NXT with the NA title. Random multi-man matches with no build featuring guys who don't deserve to be there because they aren't over, aren't pushed, or both. They think winning a single match equals a push and should get you over, but they are obviously wrong.

Metalik vs Styles should be a good match, but does anyone think Styles will lose? My guess is that he will, as punishment for speaking out. Of course, Metalik won't be pushed, because that's not how WWE works, and they will manage to bury Styles, Metalik and the US title in three weeks. Of course, Styles will dig himself out, because he's an all-time great.

It's amazing how bad WWE booking is, when AEW and Impact manage to run angles where multiple people come out looking good, and only Shawn Spears looks bad, because he sucks.



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 Posted: Sun Jul 26th, 2020 02:24 pm
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srossi

 

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It’s interesting because that Smackdown was the first that was acclaimed online in a very long time. People seemed excited about Metalik winning, Big E about to get a singles push (seemingly), etc. It was something different for once.

Now of course you’re right in everything you wrote. Metalik is easily one of the top 5 wrestlers in WWE and deserves a push, but one win over 3 other jobbers while Styles makes fun of all of them doesn’t make anyone think he’s worthy of a title shot. The announcing is so terrible that to put him over even a little bit, no one even bothered mentioning that he made the finals of the Cruiserweight Classic, which was the last thing WWE did that anyone liked. But that happened like eons ago so no one would possibly remember that, and besides all the Cruiserweights are jobbers now anyone. So they didn’t bother to mention the one time Metalik was booked well. Now he goes in cold to a title match and win or lose if does nothing for him. But in 2 weeks Vince will be furious that the Metalik match didn’t draw 50 million viewers and blame him for not getting over and hold it against him for the rest of his life.



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 Posted: Sun Jul 26th, 2020 03:00 pm
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Kriss
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It's a proper asshole move. You want want me to push someone new. OK, how about this random guy? Random guy gets one big win out of nowhere but the ratings don't improve. See! He can't draw ratings! That's no way to book a wrestling promotion. Bruce Prichard's "less moves, sell more" isn't going to help Metalik at all, either.

Another thing is Styles making fun of his four potential opponents. Wrestling promo 101 is don't tell everyone your opponent sucks, because then you either beat or lost to someone who sucks, and everyone loses. WwE have done this for years, having made guys making fun of up and comes. Why would you make fun of your own product? Compare the presentation of Eddie Lingston's AEW debut to the many "who the fuck are you" debuts in WWE. Unless it's between two made guys, or there is a very careful story planned, wrestlers should be putting over their opponents, not mocking them. Fuck every Kevn Dunn Photoshops on the big screen segments.



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 Posted: Mon Jul 27th, 2020 01:56 am
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Rumor has it that Daniel Bryan is now part of the Smackdown booking team.

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 Posted: Mon Jul 27th, 2020 05:38 am
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I wouldn't be so quick to let AEW off the hook, they're in their own booking mess. Every time they bring a big guy in like Archer or Lee they run over a gang of smaller guys, and then they put them against someone already established like Moxley or Cody and they lose. Matt Hardy is already rebooting his gimmick. Eddie Kingston losing by submission in his debut was a questionable decision.



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 Posted: Mon Jul 27th, 2020 05:59 am
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srossi

 

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victhestick wrote: I wouldn't be so quick to let AEW off the hook, they're in their own booking mess. Every time they bring a big guy in like Archer or Lee they run over a gang of smaller guys, and then they put them against someone already established like Moxley or Cody and they lose. Matt Hardy is already rebooting his gimmick. Eddie Kingston losing by submission in his debut was a questionable decision.
I didn't like Kingston tapping out either given his tough guy rep and the story they told about him.  A finish where he passed out instead of tapped out would've made much more sense.  That said, he's an unsigned indy guy against one of AEW's best, and there really is no guarantee that he's coming back.  So how far out of their way do they have to go to make him look good?

As far as Archer goes, he's very underutilized already and they should've had him destroy mid-carders much longer before finally losing to a top guy.  Now that he's already lost, they've booked him into a bit of a corner because he's too big and dominant to lose again anytime soon against a roster where even the top guys are half his size.

Similar thing with Lee where he's too big to job too often, but that whole Dark Order angle is a mess that isn't getting over, and he seems like a poor fit for that leadership role.  Sometimes the obvious is the best, and I would've so much preferred to see Christopher Daniels become the "Fallen Angel" again (even though everyone expected it) and manage that group as he's rarely wrestling anymore anyway.  Now they're trying to use Cabana's charisma to save the angle, but that's not working for me either.  It's easily the worst thing about AEW and everyone knows it.  Every company seems to need a Dungeon of Doom/Paul Jones' Army heel stable that no one wants to see and that lasts far too long, and this is it for AEW. 

There are other things too.  Joey Janela?  Why is he there?  He already no-showed once because he's a top paid indy talent who couldn't figure out why he should give that up to job on Dark every week, and he can't be much happier now that he's teaming with Sonny Kiss in an undercard tag team.  And yes, the women's division just flat-out sucks with the exception of Britt Baker's promos while she's injured.  And now they're starting a Women's Tag division too to compound the problem. 

So those are my issues with AEW.  However, AEW makes individual decisions that I don't agree with.  Their overall booking philosophy I think is sound, and in a short period of time they've clearly gotten over more guys than WWE has in 5 years.  I doubted they would after the first month of Dynamite, and I'm happy to see that I was proven wrong.  Guys like Sammy Guevera and Darby Allin who I didn't give two shits about in their first matches are now very interesting acts for the company, and big homegrown stars already.  So I don' think that it's about them getting a pass as much as it's about one company being a total booking disaster from the top for the past 20 years and the other company running with a handful of things that haven't clicked. 

Last edited on Mon Jul 27th, 2020 06:06 am by srossi



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 Posted: Mon Jul 27th, 2020 04:47 pm
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victhestick wrote: I wouldn't be so quick to let AEW off the hook, they're in their own booking mess. Every time they bring a big guy in like Archer or Lee they run over a gang of smaller guys, and then they put them against someone already established like Moxley or Cody and they lose. Matt Hardy is already rebooting his gimmick. Eddie Kingston losing by submission in his debut was a questionable decision.
Archer should've won the TNT belt. It would've established him as the #2 heel in the company behind Fat Jericho.

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 Posted: Mon Jul 27th, 2020 04:55 pm
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srossi wrote: victhestick wrote: I wouldn't be so quick to let AEW off the hook, they're in their own booking mess. Every time they bring a big guy in like Archer or Lee they run over a gang of smaller guys, and then they put them against someone already established like Moxley or Cody and they lose. Matt Hardy is already rebooting his gimmick. Eddie Kingston losing by submission in his debut was a questionable decision.
I didn't like Kingston tapping out either given his tough guy rep and the story they told about him.  A finish where he passed out instead of tapped out would've made much more sense.  That said, he's an unsigned indy guy against one of AEW's best, and there really is no guarantee that he's coming back.  So how far out of their way do they have to go to make him look good?

As far as Archer goes, he's very underutilized already and they should've had him destroy mid-carders much longer before finally losing to a top guy.  Now that he's already lost, they've booked him into a bit of a corner because he's too big and dominant to lose again anytime soon against a roster where even the top guys are half his size.

Similar thing with Lee where he's too big to job too often, but that whole Dark Order angle is a mess that isn't getting over, and he seems like a poor fit for that leadership role.  Sometimes the obvious is the best, and I would've so much preferred to see Christopher Daniels become the "Fallen Angel" again (even though everyone expected it) and manage that group as he's rarely wrestling anymore anyway.  Now they're trying to use Cabana's charisma to save the angle, but that's not working for me either.  It's easily the worst thing about AEW and everyone knows it.  Every company seems to need a Dungeon of Doom/Paul Jones' Army heel stable that no one wants to see and that lasts far too long, and this is it for AEW. 

There are other things too.  Joey Janela?  Why is he there?  He already no-showed once because he's a top paid indy talent who couldn't figure out why he should give that up to job on Dark every week, and he can't be much happier now that he's teaming with Sonny Kiss in an undercard tag team.  And yes, the women's division just flat-out sucks with the exception of Britt Baker's promos while she's injured.  And now they're starting a Women's Tag division too to compound the problem. 

So those are my issues with AEW.  However, AEW makes individual decisions that I don't agree with.  Their overall booking philosophy I think is sound, and in a short period of time they've clearly gotten over more guys than WWE has in 5 years.  I doubted they would after the first month of Dynamite, and I'm happy to see that I was proven wrong.  Guys like Sammy Guevera and Darby Allin who I didn't give two shits about in their first matches are now very interesting acts for the company, and big homegrown stars already.  So I don' think that it's about them getting a pass as much as it's about one company being a total booking disaster from the top for the past 20 years and the other company running with a handful of things that haven't clicked. 

I really enjoy Hikaru Shida. Best women's wrestler on the roster. The problem is with the women is that Brandi Rhodes is AEW's Stephane McMahon. She is involved in the division as a worker and she is absolutely dreadful as one.To have Allie with her is a disgrace to Allie. She should be a manager or figurehead and nothing else.  They have some decent wrestlers, who can't talk and that doesn't work with an American audience. Kenny Omega has no idea on how to book this revolving door of "talent" and they need someone else ASAP to take over.
I don't see Janela having any talent besides jumping off of tall things and doing stupid stuff. They already have Moxley, Omega( to a point) and others who over and folks care about. I think at this point Janela only has a job because if the Young Bucks and their friendship.

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 Posted: Mon Jul 27th, 2020 05:46 pm
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srossi

 

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freebirdsforever2019 wrote: srossi wrote: victhestick wrote: I wouldn't be so quick to let AEW off the hook, they're in their own booking mess. Every time they bring a big guy in like Archer or Lee they run over a gang of smaller guys, and then they put them against someone already established like Moxley or Cody and they lose. Matt Hardy is already rebooting his gimmick. Eddie Kingston losing by submission in his debut was a questionable decision.
I didn't like Kingston tapping out either given his tough guy rep and the story they told about him.  A finish where he passed out instead of tapped out would've made much more sense.  That said, he's an unsigned indy guy against one of AEW's best, and there really is no guarantee that he's coming back.  So how far out of their way do they have to go to make him look good?

As far as Archer goes, he's very underutilized already and they should've had him destroy mid-carders much longer before finally losing to a top guy.  Now that he's already lost, they've booked him into a bit of a corner because he's too big and dominant to lose again anytime soon against a roster where even the top guys are half his size.

Similar thing with Lee where he's too big to job too often, but that whole Dark Order angle is a mess that isn't getting over, and he seems like a poor fit for that leadership role.  Sometimes the obvious is the best, and I would've so much preferred to see Christopher Daniels become the "Fallen Angel" again (even though everyone expected it) and manage that group as he's rarely wrestling anymore anyway.  Now they're trying to use Cabana's charisma to save the angle, but that's not working for me either.  It's easily the worst thing about AEW and everyone knows it.  Every company seems to need a Dungeon of Doom/Paul Jones' Army heel stable that no one wants to see and that lasts far too long, and this is it for AEW. 

There are other things too.  Joey Janela?  Why is he there?  He already no-showed once because he's a top paid indy talent who couldn't figure out why he should give that up to job on Dark every week, and he can't be much happier now that he's teaming with Sonny Kiss in an undercard tag team.  And yes, the women's division just flat-out sucks with the exception of Britt Baker's promos while she's injured.  And now they're starting a Women's Tag division too to compound the problem. 

So those are my issues with AEW.  However, AEW makes individual decisions that I don't agree with.  Their overall booking philosophy I think is sound, and in a short period of time they've clearly gotten over more guys than WWE has in 5 years.  I doubted they would after the first month of Dynamite, and I'm happy to see that I was proven wrong.  Guys like Sammy Guevera and Darby Allin who I didn't give two shits about in their first matches are now very interesting acts for the company, and big homegrown stars already.  So I don' think that it's about them getting a pass as much as it's about one company being a total booking disaster from the top for the past 20 years and the other company running with a handful of things that haven't clicked. 

I really enjoy Hikaru Shida. Best women's wrestler on the roster. The problem is with the women is that Brandi Rhodes is AEW's Stephane McMahon. She is involved in the division as a worker and she is absolutely dreadful as one.To have Allie with her is a disgrace to Allie. She should be a manager or figurehead and nothing else.  They have some decent wrestlers, who can't talk and that doesn't work with an American audience. Kenny Omega has no idea on how to book this revolving door of "talent" and they need someone else ASAP to take over.
I don't see Janela having any talent besides jumping off of tall things and doing stupid stuff. They already have Moxley, Omega( to a point) and others who over and folks care about. I think at this point Janela only has a job because if the Young Bucks and their friendship.

Brandi barely wrestles except on jobber matches on Dark.  She's not the reason the women's division has problems.  She's been involved in exactly 1 angle since AEW started and that wasn't going well so they dropped it quickly.  There is no comparison at all to Stephanie and the amount of TV time she's gotten. 



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 Posted: Mon Jul 27th, 2020 06:30 pm
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While you can certainly point to wrestlers in AEW who could be pushed more, and they have signed some people out of friendship rather than talent, I don't think it's to the detriment of the show like WWE's bad booking.

The women's division was supposed to have a big contingent of Japanese wrestlers, which was obviously nixed by Covid. I believe Shida lives in the US, and she is the only joshi girl left.

I wouldn't put any stock into what happens on Dark. It's just acting a a free hour+ of wrestling on YouTube that's there if you want it. I think they said a few months ago that this was to give people some extra work and exposure while indy wrestling is closed down. This isn't their plan for a second TV show, as some fools have said on wrestling newz sites.

Specifically on Lance Archer. If this was 40 years ago, we'd all be complaining that Andre the Giant never gets a shot at the WWF, NWA or world titles. Booking giants has always been a problem. Unless you are Vince in the 90s and 00s when everyone was a giant. Maybe AEW's plan was to share talent with the companies they were working with all over the world.



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 Posted: Tue Jul 28th, 2020 02:56 pm
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My issue with Archer is that they built him up before his debut and put him with Jake, who is one of the best minds in the business and a hell of a talker. So far he's beaten up random people in the woods and backstage and lost to Cody (maybe won a squash or two?) but otherwise nothing. I think the only other person AEW has messed up with is the Shawn Spears/Tully Blanchard pairing



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 Posted: Tue Jul 28th, 2020 04:06 pm
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Maybe an unpopular opinion, but I think Jake and Tully have been very average in AEW. It's probably nostalgia that's keeping me from ranking them at poor. Jake's pre-recorded stuff was decent, but anything he did in the arena has been a little bit off. His stuff with Brandi was giving me Heroes of Wrestling flashbacks. Arn has been decent, but Tazz has been a level above even Arn.



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 Posted: Tue Jul 28th, 2020 05:10 pm
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Kriss wrote: Maybe an unpopular opinion, but I think Jake and Tully have been very average in AEW. It's probably nostalgia that's keeping me from ranking them at poor. Jake's pre-recorded stuff was decent, but anything he did in the arena has been a little bit off. His stuff with Brandi was giving me Heroes of Wrestling flashbacks. Arn has been decent, but Tazz has been a level above even Arn.
It hasn't been years, it's been decades since Jake, Arn, or Tully have done much of anything in wrestling.  There names mean something and every once in a while you get a glimpse of past greatness, but only Jim Cornette types think that they are really "showing the kids how it's done".  I'm sure they can give great advice backstage, but as on-camera performers it's a bit painful to watch at this point in their lives.  Arn has been the best of the 3, but he almost never talks anymore. 

On the other hand, Taz has remained much closer to a visible role in wrestling between commentary and his wrestling radio shows.  He's absolutely killing it, and is still one of my favorite promos.  Cage has been helped greatly having him as a mouthpiece.  But Taz is a whole generation (maybe a generation and a half) more recent than those other guys.  And it shows.



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 Posted: Tue Jul 28th, 2020 05:52 pm
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srossi wrote: Kriss wrote: Maybe an unpopular opinion, but I think Jake and Tully have been very average in AEW. It's probably nostalgia that's keeping me from ranking them at poor. Jake's pre-recorded stuff was decent, but anything he did in the arena has been a little bit off. His stuff with Brandi was giving me Heroes of Wrestling flashbacks. Arn has been decent, but Tazz has been a level above even Arn.
It hasn't been years, it's been decades since Jake, Arn, or Tully have done much of anything in wrestling.  There names mean something and every once in a while you get a glimpse of past greatness, but only Jim Cornette types think that they are really "showing the kids how it's done".  I'm sure they can give great advice backstage, but as on-camera performers it's a bit painful to watch at this point in their lives.  Arn has been the best of the 3, but he almost never talks anymore. 

On the other hand, Taz has remained much closer to a visible role in wrestling between commentary and his wrestling radio shows.  He's absolutely killing it, and is still one of my favorite promos.  Cage has been helped greatly having him as a mouthpiece.  But Taz is a whole generation (maybe a generation and a half) more recent than those other guys.  And it shows.
Taz also really never left the business after he left TNA.  He had his podcast and his radio show and he kept up with current product.  I think Jake, Tully, and Arn have been more than just fine with what they've been asked to do.  But what they've been asked to do is pretty much all they CAN do at this point.  Taz can still cut a promo better than most people currently wrestling, and doesn't need much to work with.  Arn and Jake are able to shine on the right day with the right bullet point in mind.  Tully?  He should be just as good, but they gave him Shawn Spears and they barely have Tully talk.  He needs to say more and get somebody that he can lead instead of just stand next to.



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 Posted: Tue Jul 28th, 2020 07:58 pm
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Superstar wrote: srossi wrote: Kriss wrote: Maybe an unpopular opinion, but I think Jake and Tully have been very average in AEW. It's probably nostalgia that's keeping me from ranking them at poor. Jake's pre-recorded stuff was decent, but anything he did in the arena has been a little bit off. His stuff with Brandi was giving me Heroes of Wrestling flashbacks. Arn has been decent, but Tazz has been a level above even Arn.
It hasn't been years, it's been decades since Jake, Arn, or Tully have done much of anything in wrestling.  There names mean something and every once in a while you get a glimpse of past greatness, but only Jim Cornette types think that they are really "showing the kids how it's done".  I'm sure they can give great advice backstage, but as on-camera performers it's a bit painful to watch at this point in their lives.  Arn has been the best of the 3, but he almost never talks anymore. 

On the other hand, Taz has remained much closer to a visible role in wrestling between commentary and his wrestling radio shows.  He's absolutely killing it, and is still one of my favorite promos.  Cage has been helped greatly having him as a mouthpiece.  But Taz is a whole generation (maybe a generation and a half) more recent than those other guys.  And it shows.
Taz also really never left the business after he left TNA.  He had his podcast and his radio show and he kept up with current product.  I think Jake, Tully, and Arn have been more than just fine with what they've been asked to do.  But what they've been asked to do is pretty much all they CAN do at this point.  Taz can still cut a promo better than most people currently wrestling, and doesn't need much to work with.  Arn and Jake are able to shine on the right day with the right bullet point in mind.  Tully?  He should be just as good, but they gave him Shawn Spears and they barely have Tully talk.  He needs to say more and get somebody that he can lead instead of just stand next to.

Funny thing about these guys as managers just proves what we have all been saying for decades now in that Vinces idea that managers are yesterday’s news is totally wrong. Take Brian Cage, as others have said he has benefited so much from having Taz as his mouthpiece. He looks the part and Taz helps him come across as a badass. Not so sure that would be the case if he were left to speak on his own. 



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