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 Posted: Wed Oct 21st, 2020 03:47 am
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srossi

 

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Everyone bitches about awful booking so much these days, but let’s hear about the most nonsensical angles, miscast babyface, aborted pushes, and feuds that went nowhere pre-1983. The WWWF was so comfortable with their formulas that it seems like they barely had to try to keep the fans happy, and of course they only had to run a handful of real angles a year as opposed to a handful a week these days. But still, there must be a list. Commenting on this stuff after the fact doesn’t really do it justice, you “had to be there” to really understand what did and didn’t work. So let’s here it. 



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 Posted: Wed Oct 21st, 2020 06:04 am
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beejmi
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Bob Backlund & Pedro Morales beat The Samoans (two straight falls) for the tag titles.

Turns out Backlund (WWWF champ) can't hold the tag title because he's the singles titleholder also

A tournament is held and the Samoans regain the tag team titles

All that was accomplished was to make your unbeatable tag team champs look beatable (they were just beaten two straight falls)

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 Posted: Wed Oct 21st, 2020 12:19 pm
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freebirdsforever2019



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beejmi wrote: Bob Backlund & Pedro Morales beat The Samoans (two straight falls) for the tag titles.

Turns out Backlund (WWWF champ) can't hold the tag title because he's the singles titleholder also

A tournament is held and the Samoans regain the tag team titles

All that was accomplished was to make your unbeatable tag team champs look beatable (they were just beaten two straight falls)

I don't see that as bad booking, I see that as your champs being unbeatable. 

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 Posted: Wed Oct 21st, 2020 12:35 pm
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Kriss
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freebirdsforever2019 wrote: beejmi wrote: Bob Backlund & Pedro Morales beat The Samoans (two straight falls) for the tag titles.

Turns out Backlund (WWWF champ) can't hold the tag title because he's the singles titleholder also

A tournament is held and the Samoans regain the tag team titles

All that was accomplished was to make your unbeatable tag team champs look beatable (they were just beaten two straight falls)

I don't see that as bad booking, I see that as your champs being unbeatable. 


The bad booking is that "if this was real" the rule that Backlund was unable to hold two titles would have been known before the match took place.

Last edited on Wed Oct 21st, 2020 12:35 pm by Kriss



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 Posted: Wed Oct 21st, 2020 03:52 pm
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freebirdsforever2019



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Kriss wrote: freebirdsforever2019 wrote: beejmi wrote: Bob Backlund & Pedro Morales beat The Samoans (two straight falls) for the tag titles.

Turns out Backlund (WWWF champ) can't hold the tag title because he's the singles titleholder also

A tournament is held and the Samoans regain the tag team titles

All that was accomplished was to make your unbeatable tag team champs look beatable (they were just beaten two straight falls)

I don't see that as bad booking, I see that as your champs being unbeatable. 


The bad booking is that "if this was real" the rule that Backlund was unable to hold two titles would have been known before the match took place.

I still don't see that as an issue. It shows that the Samoans were beatable when faced by the 2 top guys in the federation. It also showed that the Samoans could rebound and win the titles back in the Tournament. 

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 Posted: Wed Oct 21st, 2020 04:07 pm
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kargol



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freebirdsforever2019 wrote: Kriss wrote: freebirdsforever2019 wrote: beejmi wrote: Bob Backlund & Pedro Morales beat The Samoans (two straight falls) for the tag titles.

Turns out Backlund (WWWF champ) can't hold the tag title because he's the singles titleholder also

A tournament is held and the Samoans regain the tag team titles

All that was accomplished was to make your unbeatable tag team champs look beatable (they were just beaten two straight falls)

I don't see that as bad booking, I see that as your champs being unbeatable. 


The bad booking is that "if this was real" the rule that Backlund was unable to hold two titles would have been known before the match took place.

I still don't see that as an issue. It shows that the Samoans were beatable when faced by the 2 top guys in the federation. It also showed that the Samoans could rebound and win the titles back in the Tournament.
It also shows there is no point in tag team wrestling at all if you can put two singles wrestlers together and they beat the tag team champions.



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 Posted: Wed Oct 21st, 2020 04:53 pm
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tamalie
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The fans seemed to like it and it was treated as the heel getting his comeuppance, but when the WWWF/WWF used babyfaces as special guest referees, that special ref would always favor the babyface, would often play a direct role in the finish, and inevitably fast count the match ending fall.

Regarding the WWF Tag Team Title tourney on TV in 1980 after Backlund and Morales had to give up the belts, the tournament field consisted of The Samoans and a bunch of teams that consisted either of two prelim guys or one star and a prelim guy. The teams were Afa and Sika, Tony Garea and Rene Goulet, Rick Martel and Dom DeNucci, Jonny Rodz and Jose Estrada, The Black Demon and Sylvano Sousa, and Baron Mike Scicluna and Johnny Rodz. Yes, unless there was an explanation on TV about someone's partner being hurt or a mistake being made by results compilers, Johnny Rodz was on two teams in a six team tourney. 

So not only did The Samoans lose the belts at Shea Stadium only for the new champs to immediately vacate them, but The Samoans won them back by beating nobody. It made Afa and Sika look bad for getting the tag belts back on the cheap and it made the WWF look bad for not having even one other team in the tourney that could possibly have won. I'm guessing the WWF didn't want any pushed talent to do a job on TV and didn't want to give away any match that they'd want fans to pay to see, but to not have a good babyface team to make it to the finals was really strange.

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 Posted: Wed Oct 21st, 2020 05:06 pm
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Superstar
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tamalie wrote: The fans seemed to like it and it was treated as the heel getting his comeuppance, but when the WWWF/WWF used babyfaces as special guest referees, that special ref would always favor the babyface, would often play a direct role in the finish, and inevitably fast count the match ending fall.

Regarding the WWF Tag Team Title tourney on TV in 1980 after Backlund and Morales had to give up the belts, the tournament field consisted of The Samoans and a bunch of teams that consisted either of two prelim guys or one star and a prelim guy. The teams were Afa and Sika, Tony Garea and Rene Goulet, Rick Martel and Dom DeNucci, Jonny Rodz and Jose Estrada, The Black Demon and Sylvano Sousa, and Baron Mike Scicluna and Johnny Rodz. Yes, unless there was an explanation on TV about someone's partner being hurt or a mistake being made by results compilers, Johnny Rodz was on two teams in a six team tourney. 

So not only did The Samoans lose the belts at Shea Stadium only for the new champs to immediately vacate them, but The Samoans won them back by beating nobody. It made Afa and Sika look bad for getting the tag belts back on the cheap and it made the WWF look bad for not having even one other team in the tourney that could possibly have won. I'm guessing the WWF didn't want any pushed talent to do a job on TV and didn't want to give away any match that they'd want fans to pay to see, but to not have a good babyface team to make it to the finals was really strange.
Considering the timeline, would it have been a stretch to have Martel and Garea lose to the Samoans with either taking the pinfall? Martel I believe was getting ready to move on - or it was just before Martel and Garea were going to win the belts.  Either way, a loss makes sense...have them job in the tourney if Martel is leaving, or have them get screwed by Albano if they were going to win later on in the year.



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 Posted: Wed Oct 21st, 2020 05:13 pm
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khawk
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Allowing Lou Albano to get in the ring with a superstar babyface knowing how badly Albano would expose the business with his blading never seemed smart. You think someone would have told him to hide that shit better, and if he didn't, stop booking him into matches.

I know Albano getting whaled on was something the fans looked forward to in the vein of managers getting their just desserts, but it's really hard on the eyes if they ever had the goal of keeping kayfabe seriously in their minds.

However, the fans of the era never let it bother them so I guess it didn't really matter.

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 Posted: Wed Oct 21st, 2020 05:31 pm
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tamalie
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Superstar wrote: tamalie wrote: The fans seemed to like it and it was treated as the heel getting his comeuppance, but when the WWWF/WWF used babyfaces as special guest referees, that special ref would always favor the babyface, would often play a direct role in the finish, and inevitably fast count the match ending fall.

Regarding the WWF Tag Team Title tourney on TV in 1980 after Backlund and Morales had to give up the belts, the tournament field consisted of The Samoans and a bunch of teams that consisted either of two prelim guys or one star and a prelim guy. The teams were Afa and Sika, Tony Garea and Rene Goulet, Rick Martel and Dom DeNucci, Jonny Rodz and Jose Estrada, The Black Demon and Sylvano Sousa, and Baron Mike Scicluna and Johnny Rodz. Yes, unless there was an explanation on TV about someone's partner being hurt or a mistake being made by results compilers, Johnny Rodz was on two teams in a six team tourney. 

So not only did The Samoans lose the belts at Shea Stadium only for the new champs to immediately vacate them, but The Samoans won them back by beating nobody. It made Afa and Sika look bad for getting the tag belts back on the cheap and it made the WWF look bad for not having even one other team in the tourney that could possibly have won. I'm guessing the WWF didn't want any pushed talent to do a job on TV and didn't want to give away any match that they'd want fans to pay to see, but to not have a good babyface team to make it to the finals was really strange.
Considering the timeline, would it have been a stretch to have Martel and Garea lose to the Samoans with either taking the pinfall? Martel I believe was getting ready to move on - or it was just before Martel and Garea were going to win the belts.  Either way, a loss makes sense...have them job in the tourney if Martel is leaving, or have them get screwed by Albano if they were going to win later on in the year.

Rick Martel was pretty new. He had just debuted on TV a bit less than a month to go before the Shea Stadium card. Tony Garea returned after an absence of more than a year at the same TV taping. The Rick Martel and Tony Garea team debuted on TV about a month after the Samoans won the tag team title back in the tourney final. They quickly beat Afa and Sika for the belts at The Spectrum, with the match airing in syndication only three weeks following their start as a team. 

The Moondogs debuted as a team basically a month after The Wild Samoans won the tag team title tourney final with the taping on 10/21/80 and their match airing the weekend of 10/25/80. It was at this same taping that the Garea and Martel team debuted. The Samoans still had the WWF Tag Team Title and were also at that set of tapings, but departed soon afterwards. The Spectrum loss of the belts was 11/8/80 and it aired in syndication on the weekend of 11/15/80. Afa and Sika last appeared in syndication on the weekend of 11/1/80. They worked house shows into late December and then left. 

Giving the belts back to The Wild Samoans only for them to effectively be gone in two months was quite strange. Why not have Martel and Garea win the tourney? Was the plan for another heel team to come in and somehow it fell through, so Afa and Sika were held over for a quick tag team title run? The WWWF/WWF Tag Team Title was always something of an afterthought. Albano would have a heel team that would feud with a babyface team of what amounted to a pair of singles wrestlers, the belts would change hands, Albano would get a new team, and the process would start over in some fashion. However, this mess took the cake.

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 Posted: Wed Oct 21st, 2020 06:33 pm
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Remembering Polish Power Ivan Putski....remember how "impervious to pain" he was? It seemed like he was so invincible in the ring.

I always wondered why, then, didn't he have any substantial title run? (perhaps because he was so stiff in the ring that it actually was GOOD booking that he didn't have the title)/

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 Posted: Wed Oct 21st, 2020 06:44 pm
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kargol wrote: freebirdsforever2019 wrote: Kriss wrote: freebirdsforever2019 wrote: beejmi wrote: Bob Backlund & Pedro Morales beat The Samoans (two straight falls) for the tag titles.

Turns out Backlund (WWWF champ) can't hold the tag title because he's the singles titleholder also

A tournament is held and the Samoans regain the tag team titles

All that was accomplished was to make your unbeatable tag team champs look beatable (they were just beaten two straight falls)

I don't see that as bad booking, I see that as your champs being unbeatable. 


The bad booking is that "if this was real" the rule that Backlund was unable to hold two titles would have been known before the match took place.

I still don't see that as an issue. It shows that the Samoans were beatable when faced by the 2 top guys in the federation. It also showed that the Samoans could rebound and win the titles back in the Tournament.
It also shows there is no point in tag team wrestling at all if you can put two singles wrestlers together and they beat the tag team champions.

Nah, it's the best two singles wrestlers in the fed.  It's believable that two guys with enormous talent on an individual scale could team up and beat the tag champs.
My only issue with it is that it was an advertised title match, so why did they not address the point beforehand that the titles couldn't be held by the singles champs and would  need to be immediately vacated?



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 Posted: Wed Oct 21st, 2020 06:46 pm
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Greg Valentine awarded the WWF title after Backlund pinned him. The ref was dazed because he got knocked down and awarded the match to the wrong man. (The Bump was not even that Bad) resulting of the title being vacate in New York ever where else Backlund was still champ.



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 Posted: Wed Oct 21st, 2020 06:50 pm
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This was all before my time. We didn't start getting tv for Titan until January '84 in Chicago, but in looking at old tapes of Backlund, the one angle I've never understood was the crying/tantrum after Graham busted up the belt. Man, that made him look weak. It just seems like something they perhaps didn't think through. I know they didn't rehearse promos back then, but that's probably one they should have did a "test run" on. Maniac/pissed off Bob would have come off better than maniac/whiney/crybaby Bob.



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"Well, maybe I like the nightlife just a little bit more than I like the damn gym, jack! And when you're makin' $500,000 a year, there ain't no reason to change what you're doing." - Dusty Rhodes, 1/4/1986
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 Posted: Thu Oct 22nd, 2020 02:16 am
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beejmi
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Babyface champ (Bruno, Backlund) would face bad guy. Bad guy won match #1.

Here comes match #2. Bad guy wins as the ref stops match because of blood or the champ is 'unable to continue'

First of all, 'unable to continue' should be a title change. Let the match go another few minutes.

This all was to set up match #3 in a series usually with a stipulation (Cage) and the babyface prevailing

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