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Bad Booking in the WWWF  Rate Topic 
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 Posted: Thu Oct 22nd, 2020 02:25 am
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beejmi
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A 'properly booked' 1980 She Stadium show would not have had the tag title change.

Go with the 'double main event' schtick 


Main event #1 is Bruno vs Zbyszko in a cage.


Main event #2 should have  been Backlund vs Race WWWF vs NWA

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 Posted: Thu Oct 22nd, 2020 01:25 pm
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khawk
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Even backlund against the top challenger (whoever that was) would have been better. Hell have the Samoans lose the titles to someone in an upset or a Schmozz that gets the titles held up for the tournament, and then have them win it back like they did. Doesn’t make them look quite as weak.

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 Posted: Fri Oct 23rd, 2020 06:49 am
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BitterOldMan



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I'm not sure this is what you're looking for, but taking the title off "Superstar" Billy Graham was just an awful decision.Graham was over with the crowd and could have easily been turned babyface for a much longer run as the champ than was originally planned and executed. I think the WWWF left money on the table by not turning him and more importantly, severly damaged Graham both as a performer, and on a personal level from the accounts I've read.



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 Posted: Fri Oct 23rd, 2020 10:08 am
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beejmi
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The Iron Sheik being the one to beat Backlund wasn't good.


A better pick would have been Ivan Koloff (who had beaten Bruno) and you still could have had Hogan take the belt off of Koloff and had Hogan do his 'Real American' schtick.

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 Posted: Fri Oct 23rd, 2020 11:16 am
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BitterOldMan



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beejmi wrote: The Iron Sheik being the one to beat Backlund wasn't good.


A better pick would have been Ivan Koloff (who had beaten Bruno) and you still could have had Hogan take the belt off of Koloff and had Hogan do his 'Real American' schtick.
I'm curious to know why you think Shiek was a poor choice? Wouldn't just about any foreign heel have worked in that spot?



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 Posted: Fri Oct 23rd, 2020 12:50 pm
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beejmi wrote: The Iron Sheik being the one to beat Backlund wasn't good.


A better pick would have been Ivan Koloff (who had beaten Bruno) and you still could have had Hogan take the belt off of Koloff and had Hogan do his 'Real American' schtick.
 It looks like the only reason Sheik won the title is because he was the next scheduled challenger for the belt. If Hogan decided to return in March then probably Orndorff becomes interim champion.



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 Posted: Sat Oct 24th, 2020 11:31 pm
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beejmi
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BitterOldMan wrote: beejmi wrote: The Iron Sheik being the one to beat Backlund wasn't good.


A better pick would have been Ivan Koloff (who had beaten Bruno) and you still could have had Hogan take the belt off of Koloff and had Hogan do his 'Real American' schtick.
I'm curious to know why you think Shiek was a poor choice? Wouldn't just about any foreign heel have worked in that spot?


Basically at the time only a few people had held the title. Koloff was a major contender for Backlund's belt and it would have 'continued history' more or less. There's the argument that Koloff had slowed down a lot by then etc but I would counter that by pointing out Backlund had beaten The Iron Sheik (Hussein Arab) a few years earlier without even going 2-3 matches with him around the horn.

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 Posted: Sun Oct 25th, 2020 12:07 am
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beejmi
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Just a basic 'painting with a wide brush'complaint

Too formula based. Challenger went up against Backlund or Bruno -if they won match #1 they won match #2 and then got match #3 and got beat.


Tag title changed hands on TV over half the time when there was a 'worthy contender' challenging for it. Not counting teams with midcard guys (SD Jones, Rick McGraw) 

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 Posted: Sun Oct 25th, 2020 11:41 am
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The Ultimate Sin
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BitterOldMan wrote: I'm not sure this is what you're looking for, but taking the title off "Superstar" Billy Graham was just an awful decision.Graham was over with the crowd and could have easily been turned babyface for a much longer run as the champ than was originally planned and executed. I think the WWWF left money on the table by not turning him and more importantly, severly damaged Graham both as a performer, and on a personal level from the accounts I've read.
And his foot was on the ropes.  They didn't even put the face over cleanly.  Now you've got a bland face with a tainted win as you headliner.  The whole thing seems odd.



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 Posted: Sun Oct 25th, 2020 11:53 am
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freebirdsforever2019



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beejmi wrote: BitterOldMan wrote: beejmi wrote: The Iron Sheik being the one to beat Backlund wasn't good.


A better pick would have been Ivan Koloff (who had beaten Bruno) and you still could have had Hogan take the belt off of Koloff and had Hogan do his 'Real American' schtick.
I'm curious to know why you think Shiek was a poor choice? Wouldn't just about any foreign heel have worked in that spot?


Basically at the time only a few people had held the title. Koloff was a major contender for Backlund's belt and it would have 'continued history' more or less. There's the argument that Koloff had slowed down a lot by then etc but I would counter that by pointing out Backlund had beaten The Iron Sheik (Hussein Arab) a few years earlier without even going 2-3 matches with him around the horn.

There were probably 30 better choices in the industry then Koloff to take the belt off of Backlund. You had Slaughter ( could've turned face after an attack from Iron Sheik), Valentine, Muraco, Patera, Masked Superstar.

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 Posted: Sun Oct 25th, 2020 03:38 pm
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freebirdsforever2019 wrote: beejmi wrote: BitterOldMan wrote: beejmi wrote: The Iron Sheik being the one to beat Backlund wasn't good.


A better pick would have been Ivan Koloff (who had beaten Bruno) and you still could have had Hogan take the belt off of Koloff and had Hogan do his 'Real American' schtick.
I'm curious to know why you think Shiek was a poor choice? Wouldn't just about any foreign heel have worked in that spot?


Basically at the time only a few people had held the title. Koloff was a major contender for Backlund's belt and it would have 'continued history' more or less. There's the argument that Koloff had slowed down a lot by then etc but I would counter that by pointing out Backlund had beaten The Iron Sheik (Hussein Arab) a few years earlier without even going 2-3 matches with him around the horn.

There were probably 30 better choices in the industry then Koloff to take the belt off of Backlund. You had Slaughter ( could've turned face after an attack from Iron Sheik), Valentine, Muraco, Patera, Masked Superstar.
I thought at the time that Valentine or Masked Superstar worked the best in the role of pulling the belt from Backlund.  Especially Superstar. 



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 Posted: Mon Oct 26th, 2020 04:42 pm
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tamalie
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Regarding Superstar Billy Graham losing the WWWF Title when he did, it was known before he won the belt that he'd be losing to Bob Backlund after a bit less than a year. Bob was already getting brought to WWWF TV to get squash wins and built up as a big deal starting in early December of 1976, well ahead of Graham beating Bruno Sammartino in Baltimore on April 30, 1977. In those matches, Bob was not being made out to be a Tony Garea type in the midcard mix. He was made out to be someone important.

Bob didn't debut at a house show until the MSG Gard on April 25, 1977 and didn't work at any other arena until December of 1977 apart from a single spot show in New Jersey the day before the August 16-17, 1977 TV tapings in Philadelphia and Hamburg. In the end, the WWWF had a set formula that called for setting its direction well in advance. It wasn't going to deviate from that path and Backlund's title reign was successful enough that the decision to stay the path with him was correct.

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 Posted: Mon Oct 26th, 2020 04:47 pm
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tamalie
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Regarding the selection of The Iron Sheik to win the WWF Title from Bob Backlund, a poster at one of the boards once put forth the theory that he got the call because Vince and his inner circle knew by December 26, 1983 that Hulk Hogan was coming in the next day for the first St. Louis taping. Therefore, Hogan was winning the title at the January 23, 1984 MSG card. Had Hogan not agreed to come in for a few more weeks, then Backlund likely would have retained his title against The Iron Sheik and then lost it to whoever he faced at the January 23, 1984 MSG card with Hogan then winning the title at the February 20, 1984 card. If Hogan wasn't coming at all, Bob would have held on longer as champ until Vince found whoever he wanted as his long term champ for expansion.

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 Posted: Mon Oct 26th, 2020 05:42 pm
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tamalie wrote: Regarding the selection of The Iron Sheik to win the WWF Title from Bob Backlund, a poster at one of the boards once put forth the theory that he got the call because Vince and his inner circle knew by December 26, 1983 that Hulk Hogan was coming in the next day for the first St. Louis taping. Therefore, Hogan was winning the title at the January 23, 1984 MSG card. Had Hogan not agreed to come in for a few more weeks, then Backlund likely would have retained his title against The Iron Sheik and then lost it to whoever he faced at the January 23, 1984 MSG card with Hogan then winning the title at the February 20, 1984 card. If Hogan wasn't coming at all, Bob would have held on longer as champ until Vince found whoever he wanted as his long term champ for expansion.No Hogan means that Vince would have thrown buckets of cash at Kerry Von Erich.  And in hindsight?  We may not even have a WWE now if that happened.   What would have been interesting is if Hogan said no and Vince had to choose between Kerry or Flair.  Remember, in late '83 when Flair regained the strap at Starrcade, Flair wasn't yet the dominant champ that we knew and loved.  There was still some issues in getting him consistently over or else they would have never flipped the belt back to Harley when they did.  But Vince wanted a face champ, and we all know Flair worked better as a heel.  Not to mention, Ric was loyal to the NWA.  So for as much as Vince and Co. say that they made Hogan, I tend to agree with the Hulkster - he did a ton more for Vince and the WWF at that time than Vince did for him.  There's zero doubt that Hogan in the NWA, AWA, and Japan could have made a fortune.  The WWF made that fortune larger than anybody expected.  But no Hulk?  There's no way Vince goes mainstream with KVE as the mouthpiece.



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 Posted: Mon Oct 26th, 2020 05:59 pm
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Superstar wrote: tamalie wrote: Regarding the selection of The Iron Sheik to win the WWF Title from Bob Backlund, a poster at one of the boards once put forth the theory that he got the call because Vince and his inner circle knew by December 26, 1983 that Hulk Hogan was coming in the next day for the first St. Louis taping. Therefore, Hogan was winning the title at the January 23, 1984 MSG card. Had Hogan not agreed to come in for a few more weeks, then Backlund likely would have retained his title against The Iron Sheik and then lost it to whoever he faced at the January 23, 1984 MSG card with Hogan then winning the title at the February 20, 1984 card. If Hogan wasn't coming at all, Bob would have held on longer as champ until Vince found whoever he wanted as his long term champ for expansion.No Hogan means that Vince would have thrown buckets of cash at Kerry Von Erich.  And in hindsight?  We may not even have a WWE now if that happened.   What would have been interesting is if Hogan said no and Vince had to choose between Kerry or Flair.  Remember, in late '83 when Flair regained the strap at Starrcade, Flair wasn't yet the dominant champ that we knew and loved.  There was still some issues in getting him consistently over or else they would have never flipped the belt back to Harley when they did.  But Vince wanted a face champ, and we all know Flair worked better as a heel.  Not to mention, Ric was loyal to the NWA.  So for as much as Vince and Co. say that they made Hogan, I tend to agree with the Hulkster - he did a ton more for Vince and the WWF at that time than Vince did for him.  There's zero doubt that Hogan in the NWA, AWA, and Japan could have made a fortune.  The WWF made that fortune larger than anybody expected.  But no Hulk?  There's no way Vince goes mainstream with KVE as the mouthpiece.

We’ll never know what would’ve happened with different top talent, but I tend to think it was the machine more than any individual wrestler, even Hogan, that would’ve propelled the WWF to dominance. The first thing to consider is the sheer incompetence and backwards thinking of the other promoters. It was going to be tough for them to be competitive in a changing entertainment landscape in the mid-‘80s no matter what. Vince had visions in terms of expansion, cable TV, national syndication, global distribution, appealing to kids, merchandising, and using celebrities that most other promoters thought were totally foreign concepts. He also had the NY, Philly, and Boston markets, sometimes mentioned as an afterthought, but it’s not like his father didn’t help him start his expansion on 2nd base just by virtue of already running a major territory in terms of population and mass media. Vince was buying up every available talent and could’ve played around with marketing a few guys until something hit big. It might not have ever hit as big as with Hogan, but the result might not have wound up very different. And then in 2 years Hogan would’ve been on board again anyway. It’s not like he was going to move to Japan permanently, and he WWF the going yo be making a ton anywhere else without the marketing. You could see throughout 1983 the WWF changing in some ways and getting hotter before Hogan was even there. Every card had new talent who were huge names elsewhere, and Vince wasn’t fucking with any of those characters. He was letting them be exactly who they were before, letting them all get over just as they had before, he was just marketing them better and letting them come across as bigger stars instead of just wrestlers. Hmmm, maybe a lesson old Vince could learn from today. I’ve always said that Vince didn’t create a single star before The Undertaker. Not one. He just took what was already there and literally promoted them better, as a promoter in the traditional sense should do. And if anyone could fill Hogan’s shoes, it might’ve been Savage. He could’ve come in as a babyface instead of a heel and gotten to a very high level. It was impossible to watch Savage even in his father’s little outlaw territory and not see money in him. He might’ve been even bigger if he came first before Hogan, and maybe if he was the guy to work Piper back in 1984. That could’ve been amazing. 

Last edited on Mon Oct 26th, 2020 06:21 pm by srossi



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