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beejmi
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I'm not a Trump lover (not a hater either) but I don't get it. 


Isn't it removing his 'right to free speech'?

srossi
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Well they're private platforms so obviously not a free speech issue.

The question is whether or not Facebook and Twitter have reached such a status in our society that they need to be considered "public utilities", in which you're basically advocating for government to step in and tell private business owners how they should conduct business because these things are so essential in the modern world, like electricity or general Internet access. That is not a step to be taken lightly.

Facebook and Twitter obviously have competition from other social media platforms, as the rise of Parlour shows, but those other ones are so small that they seem to be irrelevant. But Facebook overtook Myspace and if you let the free market work there are no exceptional barriers to entry that would make one think that it's impossible to overtake Facebook and Twitter too. In fact Facebook has already lost tons of ground to other social media that cater more to a younger crowd, and most 20-year olds wouldn't be caught dead on there. So I'm not sure how anyone can actually say they need to be regulated, even though every Republican and Democrat loves regulation and hates free enterprise.

Last edited on Fri Jan 8th, 2021 01:09 pm by srossi

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They can do whatever they want. This is not a free speech issue. Trump can still say whatever he wants and there are plenty of platforms out there for him to say it. Any site can delete or ban whoever or whatever they choose. If I come and write all over your front door, you aren't infringing on my rights by cleaning it off and telling me not to do it again.

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beejmi wrote: I'm not a Trump lover (not a hater either) but I don't get it. 


Isn't it removing his 'right to free speech'?

I don't know if there is such a thing anymore. Every word someone utters or posts somewhere is recorded out there on one platform or another for all eternity.

Not like the old days where one could say something and then plausibly deny they said it. 

I'm not sure what the point of all the social media platforms is really , like FB, twitter, SnapFace, etc if saying something someone disagrees with often means censure. 


Not something that happened to me but FB has banned people for sharing something they "FOUND " on FB.

FB and other platforms are littered with people who doing nothing all day but sit in their shit stained jimmies posting crap so that people can respond, get in an argument and have crazy Karen report them and get them banned. It's like a sport.

And yet media outlets post/print complete rubbish, half truths, out and out lies and for the most part escape unscathed.They enflame the Karen's of the world who go out and multiply and then proceed to drag people down into their morass of stupidity. 
Trump is an idiot but what happened to just scrolling on by, or just not following  him.  Even with his social media accounts shut down he wins in a sense because people are giving him the attention he craves. 
If a crying baby knows you will pick them up every time they cry then that is what they will do. Ignore them ( if it's clear the crying is just for attention) and they stop. 

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Anthony Cumia got banned from Twitter for complaining about the woman that "got him fired" from SiriusXM. So no, you are not taking away Trump's free speech, you are simply not allowing him to use your platform. It's similar to how you banned CampCornette, or whomever it was, because they were acting like a cock on the board.

For what it's worth, both Facebook and Instagram have said he's banned until at least after the inauguration, if not longer. Twitter let him back on meaning he must've deleted the three tweets that they hated.

My opinion? Maybe I'm getting to be an old man, but the POTUS should NOT be using Twitter as his source of getting the word out. He comes off as a total joke when he does this. And I would say the same for Biden, or Obama, or any other POTUS that spent even one day per week on Twitter. When you are that important, you should not be dialed in to social media.....and if you want to send a message out to the youth that uses social media as their only source of news, have your publicist run your account so that you don't fuck it up.

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Superstar wrote: Anthony Cumia got banned from Twitter for complaining about the woman that "got him fired" from SiriusXM. So no, you are not taking away Trump's free speech, you are simply not allowing him to use your platform. It's similar to how you banned CampCornette, or whomever it was, because they were acting like a cock on the board.

For what it's worth, both Facebook and Instagram have said he's banned until at least after the inauguration, if not longer. Twitter let him back on meaning he must've deleted the three tweets that they hated.

My opinion? Maybe I'm getting to be an old man, but the POTUS should NOT be using Twitter as his source of getting the word out. He comes off as a total joke when he does this. And I would say the same for Biden, or Obama, or any other POTUS that spent even one day per week on Twitter. When you are that important, you should not be dialed in to social media.....and if you want to send a message out to the youth that uses social media as their only source of news, have your publicist run your account so that you don't fuck it up.

Trump was requested to delete 3 posts in particular and he complied.  This was a bit of grandstanding on Twitter's part as they surely could've removed those posts themselves and issued him a warning, but they obviously wanted to make a statement with the ban.  Zuckerberg seems to be more politically motivated than Twitter, and more sensitive since his company was specifically blamed for all those Russian bot posts that got Trump elected in the first place, so I would not be surprised if his FB and IG bans are more permanent. 

As far as POTUS using Twitter, obviously it's a resource in this day and age, but Trump literally thought that tweeting policy in 25 characters or whatever was "official".  He was making executive decisions on Twitter, at least until he changed his mind, and often without them having any basis in reality.  That's why it was seen as a complete joke.  POTUS should be using Twitter to wish people a Happy Memorial Day and shit like that, in professional-sounding soundbytes with correct grammar and spelling vetted by a social media manager.  Beyonce literally has someone on payroll doing this for her, as does every other mega-celebrity.  But the fucking POTUS is ranting incoherently at 3:00 AM like any other Twitter user who just had a fight with his wife and drank a bottle of rum.  His team wakes up every morning dreading the fall-out from whatever he wrote while they were asleep.  It's just insane.

Last edited on Fri Jan 8th, 2021 03:24 pm by srossi

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I've tried to use Twitter, on occasion, for the past 10 (?!) years, but just could NOT get into it. Mainly for self-promotion, but I can't stand the entire concept and feel it's responsible for the dumbing-down of the Internets. A lot of "reporting" nowadays has devolved to simply "they said THIS on Twitter".

I've seen laughable efforts by local government agencies, the police and even RNO's to use it... but their use and quality of content is consistently inconsistent.

When the James Holmes shooting happened (the "Batman movie shooting" in 2012), it seemed useful for communicating what was happening... but that quickly went away within 10 minutes and reddit was actually a better source of up-to-date info.

I feel Twitter is best used for promotional purposes (company announcing new product, event, movie, etc.) or for "celebrities" to babble off about stuff (actors and athletes, mostly). It's not a good platform for communicating politics. Trump, being a "celebrity", never got that.

Of course, it's too late now and Twitter seems to be rolling along just fine. Yet we said the same thing about Facebook about five years ago, and it's been losing relevancy and heading for the toilet.

I'm the old man yelling at the sky when I say: Gimme Internets Messaging Boards!

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It was Twitter who deleted Trump's tweets in the end.

srossi
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Erick Von Erich wrote: I've tried to use Twitter, on occasion, for the past 10 (?!) years, but just could NOT get into it. Mainly for self-promotion, but I can't stand the entire concept and feel it's responsible for the dumbing-down of the Internets. A lot of "reporting" nowadays has devolved to simply "they said THIS on Twitter".

I've seen laughable efforts by local government agencies, the police and even RNO's to use it... but their use and quality of content is consistently inconsistent.

When the James Holmes shooting happened (the "Batman movie shooting" in 2012), it seemed useful for communicating what was happening... but that quickly went away within 10 minutes and reddit was actually a better source of up-to-date info.

I feel Twitter is best used for promotional purposes (company announcing new product, event, movie, etc.) or for "celebrities" to babble off about stuff (actors and athletes, mostly). It's not a good platform for communicating politics. Trump, being a "celebrity", never got that.

Of course, it's too late now and Twitter seems to be rolling along just fine. Yet we said the same thing about Facebook about five years ago, and it's been losing relevancy and heading for the toilet.

I'm the old man yelling at the sky when I say: Gimme Internets Messaging Boards!

I'm with you, I never got Twitter.  I tried to create a professional account, and almost never used it.  I just couldn't ever find a single thing worth tweeting that anyone would care about.  Within a few days of me trying though, there was an incident about 2 blocks from where I work.  I can't even remember what, a shooting or a building collapse or something.  I tweeted something about it, and a legitimate reporter immediately tweeted at me if I could give details as an "eye witness".  That's when I realized how bad Twitter reporting was.  I ignored her, but I bet I could've told her anything and she would've tweeted it as fact.  Twitter reporting is as bad as Twitter presidenting, and I absolutely despise how almost every real news source now has articles filled with nothing but tweets and they call this a news article.

So now when there's a major incident I just scroll through my feed occasionally, but it's all depressing shouting and fear-mongering and unsubstantiated reports and crazy opinions.  Then I have my "wrestling account" where I just follow a few hundred people from this world and I'll scroll occasionally during a Raw or Dynamite to hear everyone complain or kiss-ass or share an old clip or something. 

Last edited on Fri Jan 8th, 2021 03:36 pm by srossi

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Angelic Assassin wrote: beejmi wrote: I'm not a Trump lover (not a hater either) but I don't get it. 


Isn't it removing his 'right to free speech'?

I don't know if there is such a thing anymore. Every word someone utters or posts somewhere is recorded out there on one platform or another for all eternity.

Not like the old days where one could say something and then plausibly deny they said it. 

I'm not sure what the point of all the social media platforms is really , like FB, twitter, SnapFace, etc if saying something someone disagrees with often means censure. 


Not something that happened to me but FB has banned people for sharing something they "FOUND " on FB.

FB and other platforms are littered with people who doing nothing all day but sit in their shit stained jimmies posting crap so that people can respond, get in an argument and have crazy Karen report them and get them banned. It's like a sport.

And yet media outlets post/print complete rubbish, half truths, out and out lies and for the most part escape unscathed.They enflame the Karen's of the world who go out and multiply and then proceed to drag people down into their morass of stupidity. 
Trump is an idiot but what happened to just scrolling on by, or just not following  him.  Even with his social media accounts shut down he wins in a sense because people are giving him the attention he craves. 
If a crying baby knows you will pick them up every time they cry then that is what they will do. Ignore them ( if it's clear the crying is just for attention) and they stop. 

I read that one of the reasons for the ban, and it made sense to me, was that after the storming of the Capital, FB  & Twitter don't want to be the platform that he uses to rally his troops for any type of insurrection.  

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srossi wrote: Erick Von Erich wrote: I've tried to use Twitter, on occasion, for the past 10 (?!) years, but just could NOT get into it. Mainly for self-promotion, but I can't stand the entire concept and feel it's responsible for the dumbing-down of the Internets. A lot of "reporting" nowadays has devolved to simply "they said THIS on Twitter".

I've seen laughable efforts by local government agencies, the police and even RNO's to use it... but their use and quality of content is consistently inconsistent.

When the James Holmes shooting happened (the "Batman movie shooting" in 2012), it seemed useful for communicating what was happening... but that quickly went away within 10 minutes and reddit was actually a better source of up-to-date info.

I feel Twitter is best used for promotional purposes (company announcing new product, event, movie, etc.) or for "celebrities" to babble off about stuff (actors and athletes, mostly). It's not a good platform for communicating politics. Trump, being a "celebrity", never got that.

Of course, it's too late now and Twitter seems to be rolling along just fine. Yet we said the same thing about Facebook about five years ago, and it's been losing relevancy and heading for the toilet.

I'm the old man yelling at the sky when I say: Gimme Internets Messaging Boards!

I'm with you, I never got Twitter.  I tried to create a professional account, and almost never used it.  I just couldn't ever find a single thing worth tweeting that anyone would care about.  Within a few days of me trying though, there was an incident about 2 blocks from where I work.  I can't even remember what, a shooting or a building collapse or something.  I tweeted something about it, and a legitimate reporter immediately tweeted at me if I could give details as an "eye witness".  That's when I realized how bad Twitter reporting was.  I ignored her, but I bet I could've told her anything and she would've tweeted it as fact.  Twitter reporting is as bad as Twitter presidenting, and I absolutely despise how almost every real news source now has articles filled with nothing but tweets and they call this a news article.

So now when there's a major incident I just scroll through my feed occasionally, but it's all depressing shouting and fear-mongering and unsubstantiated reports and crazy opinions.  Then I have my "wrestling account" where I just follow a few hundred people from this world and I'll scroll occasionally during a Raw or Dynamite to hear everyone complain or kiss-ass or share an old clip or something. 

Twitter is different things to different people. 

To a well known person that has say 1,000,000 followers, Twitter can be monetized to promote product, whether their own or that of a sponsor. 

For people in the media, it's a means of communicating information in a more direct and prompt manner than is otherwise the case. This is how I use Twitter. I follow a significant amount of national, regional, and local sportswriters, sports bloggers, and sportscasters, not to mention pro wrestling oriented accounts. This is both useful for getting information and being in a position to react to and ask questions of these people. It frustrates me when I ask Dave Meltzer a legitimate question about Danny Hodge and he then ignores it, but argues with trolls about WWE and AEW TV ratings, so it's not perfect by any means. However, the general amount of information and interaction makes up for it. 

Where I think a lot of people get lost with Twitter is that they see it too much like Facebook. Twitter itself is partly to blame because it has made some changes over the past five or so years that were meant to make it more like Facebook. Here is the problem with that. At its heart, Facebook is about interacting with people you know, whether that is family, friends, neighbors, workmates, old classmates or whoever. It's about putting up your vacation photos and the Saturday afternoon trip to the farmers market. Twitter is about your interests, not connecting with your existing circle.

The average person should look at Twitter as an information feed tailormade for your own interests. If you don't want to read tweets complaining about politics, unfollow people. If you want politics, but only the kind that match your own views, follow appropriately. By all means, don't use the official Twitter app if you can avoid it. No one should be unhappy with their feed or feel like they get too much of something or other. It should reflect exactly what you want. And also, if you don't want to tweet about yourself, then don't. It isn't really a good tool for self expression, but it's great for getting information. There are people on it every day who might tweet once or twice per month, but want the info coming from the hundreds or thousands of accounts they follow.

The third party apps have some limitations due to Twitter restricting things like polls and the ability to see who "liked" your tweet. However, a third party app like Tweetbot enables you to get your feed 100% in chronological order with nothing pushed to the top because its trending, no tweets that Twitter put into your feed because the data says you'd be interested, and no ads.

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Private companies don't trust Trump with 280 characters.

The Republican Party trusts Trump with the nuclear button.

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there's a much bigger issue here, right now Apple is currently in the middle of nuking Parler off their platform, google will do the same prob in a day or so and it'll be killed overall. You may not like it but when big tech can basically censor anything it wants we're treading on some fucked up ice right now..

I'm not on Parler, I'm not on Gab, I'm about done on twitter but one jesus, we're seeing blatant big tech censorship now and nobody is even blinking an eye..

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It's partly because there is no responsibility on the big tech companies. They pass themselves off as mere conduits rather than publishers to avoid responsibility for what goes on on their sites.

Which means that they can get away with allowing people to put the sort of speech that would be illegal; deliberately inciting violence or racial speech or whatever.

So the whole thing becomes voluntary or ad-hoc. But if Big Tech were subject to more regulation, this sort of banning would be more, not less, common.

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Trump's account was permanently suspended from Twitter today.

I guess it's a free service and they can theoretically do whatever the fuck they want.

But Twitter has free titties, so I'm not leaving voluntarily.

Last edited on Sat Jan 9th, 2021 12:26 am by BuddyPSHayes

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BuddyPSHayes wrote: Trump's account was permanently suspended from Twitter today.

I guess it's a free service and they can theoretically do whatever the fuck they want.

But Twitter has free titties, so I'm not leaving voluntarily.
That sounds like the only good reason to be on Twitter. I'd stay too.

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kargol wrote: It's partly because there is no responsibility on the big tech companies. They pass themselves off as mere conduits rather than publishers to avoid responsibility for what goes on on their sites.

Which means that they can get away with allowing people to put the sort of speech that would be illegal; deliberately inciting violence or racial speech or whatever.

So the whole thing becomes voluntary or ad-hoc. But if Big Tech were subject to more regulation, this sort of banning would be more, not less, common.

You’re talking about eliminating Section 230, which is exactly what Trump wants to do and would destroy the Internet as we know it. No thanks.

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Married Jo wrote: there's a much bigger issue here, right now Apple is currently in the middle of nuking Parler off their platform, google will do the same prob in a day or so and it'll be killed overall. You may not like it but when big tech can basically censor anything it wants we're treading on some fucked up ice right now..

I'm not on Parler, I'm not on Gab, I'm about done on twitter but one jesus, we're seeing blatant big tech censorship now and nobody is even blinking an eye..

The first I’m hearing of this is today, and for the record I think it’s a huge mistake. Even though private companies have a right to censor, I don’t think they should make sweeping bans like this and de-platform huge swaths of people. It will backfire. You drive these people more underground and they’ll cause a hell of a lot more trouble when we’re least expecting it. There are no group of people on the planet who can’t find a place to gather on the Internet. That’s the good and the bad of it. If you’re one of 5 people in the world who get off on fat transsexual midgets shitting bananas out of their assholes, you’re going to find your people and share your interest.  There’s a place for everyone. To think that you can stop a few million hardcore Trump supporters from finding ways to do exactly what they’re doing now is not only foolhardy and arrogant, it’s dangerous. They will become more ostracized, more radicalized, and more violent. Trying to silence people is never the answer and never changes minds. I feel that way when universities ban conservative speakers and I feel that way now. 

Last edited on Sat Jan 9th, 2021 02:18 am by srossi

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And just like that, google tonight banned Parler..monkey see, monkey do...

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So, wait, what’s the deal with other Twitter people? I’m seeing news that Twitter is purging hundreds of thousands of people. Is it more than jus Trump?

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James Woods just tweeted that he lost 63,000 followers.

Last edited on Sat Jan 9th, 2021 04:26 am by Blazer

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I had 1020 followers yesterday and I’m down to 921...

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Google and Apple can choose to remove any app from their stores. It's not the government doing it, they are not illegal, so this isn't a freedom issue. Just like any other removed app, if you want it, the file is extremely easy to download from the web.

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Kriss wrote: Google and Apple can choose to remove any app from their stores. It's not the government doing it, they are not illegal, so this isn't a freedom issue. Just like any other removed app, if you want it, the file is extremely easy to download from the web.
And more people will now than ever before.  This is great advertising for them. 

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Also, try posting something "leftist" on Parler and see how long you last on the free speech app.

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Kriss wrote: Also, try posting something "leftist" on Parler and see how long you last on the free speech app.
Are you saying this from experience?

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Imagine your phone company dropping your phone service for something you said over your phone calls

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silentkiller wrote: Kriss wrote: Also, try posting something "leftist" on Parler and see how long you last on the free speech app.
Are you saying this from experience?

No, but enough stories about this from many sources that I believe it to be true.

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Infamous wrote: Imagine your phone company dropping your phone service for something you said over your phone calls

That's not a fair comparison, one is a private conversation and one is a forum accessible by millions. Also, your phone company may well drop your service depending on what you said and to whom.

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Phones are accessible to millions too. A private conversation that can still get dropped depending on what's said ? This is kind of the point

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Trump has been yelling “FIRE” in the crowded theatre so there isn’t any protection.

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The social media censorship is just another fag on the bonfire that's going to burn this country down.  Again, Trump is just a totem.  After he's off the stage, a lot of people in power are going to think the toothpaste has been put back in the tube.  They're in for a rude awakening.  

The tech giants, particularly the social media gatekeepers, are one half of the equation known as "public-private tyranny".  Think of them as akin to the company that runs the red light cameras in your town.  The government contracts out to them and reaps the benefit while doing none of the heavy lifting.  

We have an oligarchy in this country in which those who run Google, Twitter, Facebook, and Apple are in perfect harmony with the political class.  Since the political class technically can't regulate speech, they've outsourced the censorship of public discourse to their friends in Silicon Valley.  The tech giants get very transparent legislative protection from the political class to maintain their supremecy and in return the pols get bags of cash and other perquisites.  And when Cato Institute types or your Little Benny Shapiros start with their "But, muh free market!" and "Start your own internet!" crap, they can't give us an answer as to how that's going to happen when the existing tech giants are all in lockstep in their efforts to enforce the whims of the political class -- witness Apple and Google removing Parler from their stores last night.  

I'm astounded by those who moan about the frightening "theocracy" that the boogeymen of the right are always moments away from creating.  We already live in a theocracy, and it's far more overbearing than anything emanating from the fever dreams of the left.  We have a system of morality in this country that is promoted by all facets of the ruling elite and is ever more strictly enforced.  Corporate America and Madison Avenue are unrelenting in their implicit and explicit messaging.  If you don't pay proper obeisance to the religion of wokeness, you're a bad, bad person.  You can't just tolerate it, you have to celebrate it.  And the real-life repercussions of running afoul of church canon are now extending far beyond simply having your social media posts wiped away.  We're reaching the point where credit cards and banks are denying service to people who, in their private life, hold the wrong opinions.  And what if you work for a name-brand company?  What's going to happen if, on work property or on social media, you're overheard saying "I think a man in a sundress isn't a woman, he's still a man.  With a mental illness."  Or, "You know, importing tens of millions of low-skilled foreigners and hundreds of thousands of skilled workers depress the wage structure of those of us born here.  Furthermore, they've turned my hometown into something I don't want to live in.  I wish they'd all go back."  You're gone.  Your livelihood is taken away by the wine aunts in the HR department.  

And the worst part about that is that there are no rules in place.  Videos are banned and accounts are locked based purely on how the supervisors of these platforms view the established morality on that particular day.   The chilling effect on speech that this creates is even worse than having strict speech codes.  When you can be fired for uttering something that was permissible just the month before but you have no idea when the cutoff date is, then you're going to keep your mouth shut at all times.  Thus, the marketplace of ideas that is fundamental to a free society has been stripped of all utility.  

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gwlee7 wrote: Trump has been yelling “FIRE” in the crowded theatre so there isn’t any protection.

He's protected by virtue of there being a fire in the crowded theater.  

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KGB wrote: gwlee7 wrote: Trump has been yelling “FIRE” in the crowded theatre so there isn’t any protection.

He's protected by virtue of there being a fire in the crowded theater.  

But 50 times over in a court of law even when adjudicated by his own appointees, no evidence of such fire could be produced.  Not even one legitimate puff of smoke to back his claims.  Oh wait, there was one.   The guy who committed fraud FOR him.  

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But KGB, even though we disagree about Trump, I do agree with you about the oligarchy and the oligarchs. I just believe Trump is one of them too.

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The platforms are all saying that they're taking these actions because of specific violent events that were being made and shared for 2 dates in particular, one on Jan. 17 and the other on Inauguration Day. Most of these events were centered on "avenging" Ashli Babbitt's death and specifically referenced to violence against police and government officials, and in some cases included particular strategies and logistics. Many involved in writing, sharing, or liking posts with reference to these specific violent threats had their accounts purged from Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and other platforms.  Thousands of accounts have been deleted in the past 24-36 hours.

Last edited on Sat Jan 9th, 2021 07:17 pm by srossi

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srossi wrote: The platforms are all saying that they're taking these actions because of specific violent events that were being made and shared for 2 dates in particular, one on Jan. 17 and the other on Inauguration Day. Most of these events were centered on "avenging" Ashli Babbitt's death and specifically referenced to violence against police and government officials, and in some cases included particular strategies and logistics. Many involved in writing, sharing, or liking posts with reference to these specific violent threats had their accounts purged from Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and other platforms.  Thousands of accounts have been deleted in the past 24-36 hours.


In a vacuum, that's solid in my book, except the Twitter platform has been used as a vehicle for this kind of stuff for years, including the past summer with "fuck the police" and for organizing violence, looting, and chaos in metro areas all over the country.  The looting in Chicago on the night of August 10 was a specific example of grass-roots "Hey, let's go fuck shit and police up and burn it down!".   What a time to be alive.

Last edited on Sat Jan 9th, 2021 08:10 pm by Blazer

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gwlee7 wrote: But KGB, even though we disagree about Trump, I do agree with you about the oligarchy and the oligarchs. I just believe Trump is one of them too.
The fact that the entirety, and I do mean entirety, of the managerial class, from media to government to big tech, spent four years trying to effect a coup against him is evidence that he's not "one of them".  Would he have liked to be?  I assume he wouldn't have minded membership in the club.  But there's ample evidence that they hated him for not joining their reindeer games.
That's one thing about his presidency that jumps out.  The beltway insiders, deep staters, could have co-opted him so easily.  They could have played him like a fiddle; had they just struck a phony deal with him like they did Reagan, he'd have spent the rest of his term crowing about what a great negotiator he is.  But they couldn't stand the fact that he didn't roll over for their threats, that he had the temerity to point out their fundamental mediocrity.  They took it personally and when all administrative efforts failed to remove him from office, they resorted to the three-card-monty election.

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Please post credible evidence of actual fraud that would hold up in court.

He is one of them as far as I am concerned. The “conspiracy” that I believe is that “they” put someone like Trump in office to be so ridiculously inept, divisive, and infuriating that it distracts from the horrid shit that has happened.

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gwlee7 wrote: Please post credible evidence of actual fraud that would hold up in court.

He is one of them as far as I am concerned. The “conspiracy” that I believe is that “they” put someone like Trump in office to be so ridiculously inept, divisive, and infuriating that it distracts from the horrid shit that has happened.

I don’t even buy that. I can’t think of anyone who has benefited from this Trump presidency. Democrats will scream about the wealthy and corporations, but that’s just business as usual. Trump didn’t do anything particular to help them that any Republican and most Democrats haven’t done for decades. If anything it was foreign powers who won in a general sort of way just because the country has lost status now. There’s always an anonymous “they” who could be making out like a bandit behind the scenes, but I think Trump’s reign more proves that there isn’t a shadow government or NWO than that there is.  Otherwise he would’ve been killed 3 years ago and they would’ve had a much better time with Pence. 

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srossi wrote: gwlee7 wrote: Please post credible evidence of actual fraud that would hold up in court.

He is one of them as far as I am concerned. The “conspiracy” that I believe is that “they” put someone like Trump in office to be so ridiculously inept, divisive, and infuriating that it distracts from the horrid shit that has happened.

I don’t even buy that. I can’t think of anyone who has benefited from this Trump presidency. Democrats will scream about the wealthy and corporations, but that’s just business as usual. Trump didn’t do anything particular to help them that any Republican and most Democrats haven’t done for decades. If anything it was foreign powers who won in a general sort of way just because the country has lost status now. There’s always an anonymous “they” who could be making out like a bandit behind the scenes, but I think Trump’s reign more proves that there isn’t a shadow government or NWO than that there is.  Otherwise he would’ve been killed 3 years ago and they would’ve had a much better time with Pence. 

Fair.  Occam’s Razor would simply suggest Trump is inept. 

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Ron Paul says he has been locked out of his FB account (but his posts were not deleted) after posting this column today:

Last week’s massive social media purges – starting with President Trump’s permanent ban from Twitter and other outlets – was shocking and chilling, particularly to those of us who value free expression and the free exchange of ideas. The justifications given for the silencing of wide swaths of public opinion made no sense and the process was anything but transparent. Nowhere in President Trump’s two “offending” Tweets, for example, was a call for violence expressed explicitly or implicitly. It was a classic example of sentence first, verdict later.

Many Americans viewed this assault on social media accounts as a liberal or Democrat attack on conservatives and Republicans, but they are missing the point. The narrowing of allowable opinion in the virtual public square is no conspiracy against conservatives. As progressives like Glenn Greenwald have pointed out, this is a wider assault on any opinion that veers from the acceptable parameters of the mainstream elite, which is made up of both Democrats and Republicans.

Yes, this is partly an attempt to erase the Trump movement from the pages of history, but it is also an attempt to silence any criticism of the emerging political consensus in the coming Biden era that may come from progressive or antiwar circles.

After all, a look at Biden’s incoming “experts” shows that they will be the same failed neoconservative interventionists who gave us weekly kill lists, endless drone attacks and coups overseas, and even US government killing of American citizens abroad. Progressives who complain about this “back to the future” foreign policy are also sure to find their voices silenced.

Those who continue to argue that the social media companies are purely private ventures acting independent of US government interests are ignoring reality. The corporatist merger of “private” US social media companies with US government foreign policy goals has a long history and is deeply steeped in the hyper-interventionism of the Obama/Biden era.

“Big Tech” long ago partnered with the Obama/Biden/Clinton State Department to lend their tools to US “soft power” goals overseas. Whether it was ongoing regime change attempts against Iran, the 2009 coup in Honduras, the disastrous US-led coup in Ukraine, “Arab Spring,” the destruction of Syria and Libya, and so many more, the big US tech firms were happy to partner up with the State Department and US intelligence to provide the tools to empower those the US wanted to seize power and to silence those out of favor.

In short, US government elites have been partnering with “Big Tech” overseas for years to decide who has the right to speak and who must be silenced. What has changed now is that this deployment of “soft power” in the service of Washington’s hard power has come home to roost.

So what is to be done? Even pro-free speech alternative social media outlets are under attack from the Big Tech/government Leviathan. There are no easy solutions. But we must think back to the dissidents in the era of Soviet tyranny. They had no Internet. They had no social media. They had no ability to communicate with thousands and millions of like-minded, freedom lovers. Yet they used incredible creativity in the face of incredible adversity to continue pushing their ideas. Because no army – not even Big Tech partnered with Big Government - can stop an idea whose time has come. And Liberty is that idea. We must move forward with creativity and confidence!

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srossi wrote: Ron Paul says he has been locked out of his FB account (but his posts were not deleted) after posting this column today:

Last week’s massive social media purges – starting with President Trump’s permanent ban from Twitter and other outlets – was shocking and chilling, particularly to those of us who value free expression and the free exchange of ideas. The justifications given for the silencing of wide swaths of public opinion made no sense and the process was anything but transparent. Nowhere in President Trump’s two “offending” Tweets, for example, was a call for violence expressed explicitly or implicitly. It was a classic example of sentence first, verdict later.

Many Americans viewed this assault on social media accounts as a liberal or Democrat attack on conservatives and Republicans, but they are missing the point. The narrowing of allowable opinion in the virtual public square is no conspiracy against conservatives. As progressives like Glenn Greenwald have pointed out, this is a wider assault on any opinion that veers from the acceptable parameters of the mainstream elite, which is made up of both Democrats and Republicans.

Yes, this is partly an attempt to erase the Trump movement from the pages of history, but it is also an attempt to silence any criticism of the emerging political consensus in the coming Biden era that may come from progressive or antiwar circles.

After all, a look at Biden’s incoming “experts” shows that they will be the same failed neoconservative interventionists who gave us weekly kill lists, endless drone attacks and coups overseas, and even US government killing of American citizens abroad. Progressives who complain about this “back to the future” foreign policy are also sure to find their voices silenced.

Those who continue to argue that the social media companies are purely private ventures acting independent of US government interests are ignoring reality. The corporatist merger of “private” US social media companies with US government foreign policy goals has a long history and is deeply steeped in the hyper-interventionism of the Obama/Biden era.

“Big Tech” long ago partnered with the Obama/Biden/Clinton State Department to lend their tools to US “soft power” goals overseas. Whether it was ongoing regime change attempts against Iran, the 2009 coup in Honduras, the disastrous US-led coup in Ukraine, “Arab Spring,” the destruction of Syria and Libya, and so many more, the big US tech firms were happy to partner up with the State Department and US intelligence to provide the tools to empower those the US wanted to seize power and to silence those out of favor.

In short, US government elites have been partnering with “Big Tech” overseas for years to decide who has the right to speak and who must be silenced. What has changed now is that this deployment of “soft power” in the service of Washington’s hard power has come home to roost.

So what is to be done? Even pro-free speech alternative social media outlets are under attack from the Big Tech/government Leviathan. There are no easy solutions. But we must think back to the dissidents in the era of Soviet tyranny. They had no Internet. They had no social media. They had no ability to communicate with thousands and millions of like-minded, freedom lovers. Yet they used incredible creativity in the face of incredible adversity to continue pushing their ideas. Because no army – not even Big Tech partnered with Big Government - can stop an idea whose time has come. And Liberty is that idea. We must move forward with creativity and confidence!


It's like the tired joke 15 years ago about how Muslims would get so angry at being falsely accused of terrorism that they'd cut your throat for saying it.  

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Dave Scherer is now mad that FB blocked him. Lol. They’re coming for everyone.

“Facebook has gotten ridiculous. I can't post today (they haven't said I am suspended). I am getting close to leaving altogether. I know they are worried about facing action due to not being more hands on with riot inciting, but if they are randomly shutting accounts down, f' em.”

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Scherer needs to go back to Compuserve.

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srossi wrote: Dave Scherer is now mad that FB blocked him. Lol. They’re coming for everyone.

“Facebook has gotten ridiculous. I can't post today (they haven't said I am suspended). I am getting close to leaving altogether. I know they are worried about facing action due to not being more hands on with riot inciting, but if they are randomly shutting accounts down, f' em.”
Did Dave post something controversial about 1995 ECW house shows in red states? Maybe he should get over himself.

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He probably forgot his password and is blaming on the man.

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Parlor's CEO has been fired by the Board of Directors for "caving" after he tried to introduce some minor moderation in the wake of the insurrection.

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Voting software company Smartmatic has died Fox News for more than $2 billion because Lou Dobbs continue to spread lies, so Dobbs’ show was abruptly canceled today. You’d think if they were going to cave they would’ve done something before the lawsuit.



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