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 Posted: Sun Feb 15th, 2009 01:39 pm
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silentkiller



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Kid_Naitch wrote: Griffey. Bonds' best years were after 2000.

Regardless of that Bonds was still the best player of the 90's overall. Bonds was better than Griffey overall for the entire decade and on a year by year basis.



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 Posted: Sun Feb 15th, 2009 01:45 pm
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Ultimark



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silentkiller wrote: Kid_Naitch wrote: Griffey. Bonds' best years were after 2000.

Regardless of that Bonds was still the best player of the 90's overall. Bonds was better than Griffey overall for the entire decade and on a year by year basis.

I disagree totally.  Go take a look at the stats on baseball reference.  It is not even really that close.  Griffey by a mile in the 90's.

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 Posted: Sun Feb 15th, 2009 01:48 pm
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silentkiller



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Ultimark wrote: silentkiller wrote: Kid_Naitch wrote: Griffey. Bonds' best years were after 2000.

Regardless of that Bonds was still the best player of the 90's overall. Bonds was better than Griffey overall for the entire decade and on a year by year basis.

I disagree totally.  Go take a look at the stats on baseball reference.  It is not even really that close.  Griffey by a mile in the 90's.

You're right it's not even close. Bonds blows him away. Honestly Griffey was extremely overrated in the 90's. There were seasons in the 90's it's been argued that Craig Biggio was a better player than Griffey and there is a strong case for that argument.

Last edited on Sun Feb 15th, 2009 01:51 pm by silentkiller



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 Posted: Sun Feb 15th, 2009 02:41 pm
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Ultimark



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silentkiller wrote: Ultimark wrote: silentkiller wrote: Kid_Naitch wrote: Griffey. Bonds' best years were after 2000.

Regardless of that Bonds was still the best player of the 90's overall. Bonds was better than Griffey overall for the entire decade and on a year by year basis.

I disagree totally.  Go take a look at the stats on baseball reference.  It is not even really that close.  Griffey by a mile in the 90's.

You're right it's not even close. Bonds blows him away. Honestly Griffey was extremely overrated in the 90's. There were seasons in the 90's it's been argued that Craig Biggio was a better player than Griffey and there is a strong case for that argument.


Let's go to the stats for the 90's:

Griffey

HR's - 382

RBI's - 1091

Hits - 1622

Bonds

HR's - 361

RBI's - 1076

Hits - 1478

Both missed approx the same amount of time to injuries in that decade with Griffey missing slightly more games than Bonds so that is a wash.  If you want to include the first half of the new decade, then yes, Bonds roided ass wins by a mile.  However, this is the 90's and the numbers are not on your side.  I am not even sure how you can make that argument based on the numbers.

 

 

 

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 Posted: Sun Feb 15th, 2009 02:55 pm
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silentkiller



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Barry Bonds beat Ken Griffey Jr. in OPS for every single year of the 1990's. Barry Bonds blew away Ken Griffey Jr. in Walks,OBP, Slugging Percentage, and Runs for virtually every season in the 1990's. His strikeout rate was much much lower than Griffey's also. I also can't forget about stolen bases where it's not even a contest.

Last edited on Sun Feb 15th, 2009 02:58 pm by silentkiller



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 Posted: Sun Feb 15th, 2009 02:58 pm
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Ultimark



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Now we are going to Moneyball stats?  Sorry, not buying.  OK - Bonds won 8 Gold Gloves.  Very impressive but not quite as good as Griffey's 10.  FWIW -  I think many (not all) the Moneyball stats are bullshit and gold gloves definitely ARE bullshit.  Most of them are handed out on past reputation. 

Anyway, I will stick with Griffey in the 90's.  He fell off the cliff, due to injuries after that. 

 

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 Posted: Sun Feb 15th, 2009 03:07 pm
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silentkiller



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Ultimark wrote: Now we are going to Moneyball stats?  Sorry, not buying.  OK - Bonds won 8 Gold Gloves.  Very impressive but not quite as good as Griffey's 10.  FWIW -  I think many (not all) the Moneyball stats are bullshit and gold gloves definitely ARE bullshit.  Most of them are handed out on past reputation. 

Anyway, I will stick with Griffey in the 90's.  He fell off the cliff, due to injuries after that. 

 

Moneyball stats are bullshit? OPS and OBP are not even real advanced metrics ad Bonds blows away Griffey in those numbers. I didn't use one single advanced metric in the Bonds vs. Griffey comparison because if you do then it is a true blowout. But here's some more 90's numbers of Bonds vs Griffey. Bonds had about 400 less ABs than Griffey which is about a season less of ABs than Griffey.

bonds 4444 ab
griffey 4837 ab

bonds .333 avg
griffey .318

bonds 361 hr
griffey 382 hr

bonds 12.31 hr/ab
griffey 12.66 hr/ab

bonds 313 sb
griffey 151 sb

bonds 1146 bb
griffey 703 bb

bonds 747 k
griffey 901 k

bonds 2744 tb
griffey 3125 tb



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 Posted: Sun Feb 15th, 2009 03:08 pm
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Ultimark



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Fine - you win, whatver.

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 Posted: Sun Feb 15th, 2009 03:13 pm
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silentkiller



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I forgot also that Bonds played in parks that favored pitchers also while Griffey played in a hitters ballpark. Griffey wasn't in some seasons the best player on his team let alone his league, as you could make a strong case that Frank Thomas was better than Griffey in the 1990's. On a season by season basis or overall either I don't see how Griffey was better than Bonds.



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 Posted: Sun Feb 15th, 2009 03:14 pm
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Ultimark



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I already conceded you the point. 

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 Posted: Sun Feb 15th, 2009 03:15 pm
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silentkiller



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Ultimark wrote: I already conceded you the point.
I didn't see your post until I posted.



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 Posted: Sun Feb 15th, 2009 03:17 pm
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Ultimark



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No problem.  Either way, both were great players in the 90's.  I liked Thomas a lot also. 

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 Posted: Sun Feb 15th, 2009 05:48 pm
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HBF



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For shits and giggles, I'll throw Jamie Moyer into the mix.



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 Posted: Mon Feb 16th, 2009 12:25 am
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Chitown Rich

 

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Quick trivia question.

 

Without googling the answer, does anyone know who led the majors in hits in the 90's?

I was surprised that it was one of my favorites.

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 Posted: Mon Feb 16th, 2009 02:11 am
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BigJ



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thunderbolt wrote: Just a personal bias, but I'll say Tony Gwynn.  He was an all-star more times during the 90s than Bonds, hit for a much higher average and was a class act across the board.

Ditto

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