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beejmi
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A frequent complaint is that there are too many teams in pro sports and that the talent is watered down. So what major professional sports teams would you lose if you could just snap your fingers and wipe some out?

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Pittsburgh Pirates, Florida Marlins, Kansas City Royals, Nashville Predators, Columbus Blue Jackets (or whatever they are called).    T he NFL and NBA don't seem to have any obvious teams to fold.  Too early to tell on The Thunder.

The Nats are on the death list but I am not ready to pull the trigger.  There is a reason why baseball failed twice in DC.

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NBA - No need for Oklahoma City. Or the Clippers.

NFL - Arizona - gotta go. Jacksonville - why? You have Atlanta and Tampa already.

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beejmi wrote: NBA - No need for Oklahoma City. Or the Clippers.

NFL - Arizona - gotta go. Jacksonville - why? You have Atlanta and Tampa already.

Agree on the Clippers.  I forgot about them.  Timing might be a tad bit difficult to fold the Cards.   I always thought Jacksonville was a strange place to have a NFL team so I guess I could go with that.

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If the Nuttings remain the owners of the Pirates, I would be in favor in getting rid of the team.  This ownership group is the biggest sham to come down the pike in quite awhile.  They have no idea on how to run a sports franchise and truly do not want to know how to run a successful franchise.  The only hope that Pirates fans have is that they contrinued their greed-filled plan and sell the team.

Last edited on Sat Feb 21st, 2009 02:47 pm by Papa Voo

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Ultimark wrote: Pittsburgh Pirates, Florida Marlins, Kansas City Royals, Nashville Predators, Columbus Blue Jackets (or whatever they are called).    T he NFL and NBA don't seem to have any obvious teams to fold.  Too early to tell on The Thunder.

The Nats are on the death list but I am not ready to pull the trigger.  There is a reason why baseball failed twice in DC.

The Nationals had a better attendence record than the A's last year. If they should go the A's should too.

Ultimark



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Benlen wrote: Ultimark wrote: Pittsburgh Pirates, Florida Marlins, Kansas City Royals, Nashville Predators, Columbus Blue Jackets (or whatever they are called).    T he NFL and NBA don't seem to have any obvious teams to fold.  Too early to tell on The Thunder.

The Nats are on the death list but I am not ready to pull the trigger.  There is a reason why baseball failed twice in DC.

The Nationals had a better attendence record than the A's last year. If they should go the A's should too.


Ben,

I am thinking about the future also.  The Nats attendance, despite a shiny new stadium, is still not that good.  Let's see what happens to the A's when they get their new ball park.  The Nats attendance would be even worse if the fans of the Phils and Mets did not travel by the thousands to DC to watch their home teams play.

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Ultimark wrote: Benlen wrote: Ultimark wrote: Pittsburgh Pirates, Florida Marlins, Kansas City Royals, Nashville Predators, Columbus Blue Jackets (or whatever they are called).    T he NFL and NBA don't seem to have any obvious teams to fold.  Too early to tell on The Thunder.

The Nats are on the death list but I am not ready to pull the trigger.  There is a reason why baseball failed twice in DC.

The Nationals had a better attendence record than the A's last year. If they should go the A's should too.


Ben,

I am thinking about the future also.  The Nats attendance, despite a shiny new stadium, is still not that good.  Let's see what happens to the A's when they get their new ball park.  The Nats attendance would be even worse if the fans of the Phils and Mets did not travel by the thousands to DC to watch their home teams play.

A little more on the Nats.  I would have expected at least 2.5m for attendance last year based on the new ballpark alone.  This year, unless they begin to really compete, they probably will wind up below 2 million.   It will get worse if they don't turn things around soon.  I hear they have a lot of studs in the minors so hopefully they can hang in there for a while.

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I can't pull the plug on the A's or Pirates just based on tradition.

Benlen



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Ultimark wrote: Benlen wrote: Ultimark wrote: Pittsburgh Pirates, Florida Marlins, Kansas City Royals, Nashville Predators, Columbus Blue Jackets (or whatever they are called).    T he NFL and NBA don't seem to have any obvious teams to fold.  Too early to tell on The Thunder.

The Nats are on the death list but I am not ready to pull the trigger.  There is a reason why baseball failed twice in DC.

The Nationals had a better attendence record than the A's last year. If they should go the A's should too.


Ben,

I am thinking about the future also.  The Nats attendance, despite a shiny new stadium, is still not that good.  Let's see what happens to the A's when they get their new ball park.  The Nats attendance would be even worse if the fans of the Phils and Mets did not travel by the thousands to DC to watch their home teams play.


I personally don't think the A's will get a new stadium in the Bay Area. I think they have a better chance of getting a new stadium if the move to Sacramento.

As Crappy as the Nationals play the last 4 years they have out drew the A's even when they were at RFK stadium.

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The Charlotte Bobcats. Nobody gives a shit, we cared about the Hornets. The Hornets should have never left. Now they are losing money like crazy, nobody comes to see them in New Orleans, and nobody comes to see the Bobcats in Charlotte. Bunch of bullshit. Fuck George Shinn.

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Married Jo wrote: The Charlotte Bobcats. Nobody gives a shit, we cared about the Hornets. The Hornets should have never left. Now they are losing money like crazy, nobody comes to see them in New Orleans, and nobody comes to see the Bobcats in Charlotte. Bunch of bullshit. Fuck George Shinn.
While we're on the topic, why are the Utah Jazz still "the Jazz".  Mormons don't know anything about the genre.
Why are the Hornets know in New Orleans?  Why not rename them the Jazz?

Makes little sense.

Last edited on Sat Feb 21st, 2009 06:52 pm by HBF

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beejmi wrote: I can't pull the plug on the A's or Pirates just based on tradition.

You are correct, beej, but this ownership can continue on and on with this style of management.  They are not looking for large profits.  The only saving grace is that many believe that the Nuttings are putting alot of money into paying down the debt of the team, and thus, making it more appealing for buyers. 

The only bad thing now is the economy.  The cheap bastards that the Nuttings are, they will want top dollar for the franchise despite the recession/depression taking place.  I mean they took over a bad franchise and continue to run the thing into the ground.  They refuse to open their books and they have continued to make profit without hardly investing any money back into the team.

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All the southern and western hockey teams in the US.  Ship them to Canada or a northern city that will watch them.

All the NBA teams that were created in the 90's or later.  Fuck em.

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Married Jo wrote: The Charlotte Bobcats. Nobody gives a shit, we cared about the Hornets. The Hornets should have never left. Now they are losing money like crazy, nobody comes to see them in New Orleans, and nobody comes to see the Bobcats in Charlotte. Bunch of bullshit. Fuck George Shinn.


Actually, the Hornets have excellent attendance numbers in NOLA since mid-way through last season, a little before all-star break, when the Hornets caught fire.  They've had quite a few sell-outs in the last year. 

Before that it wasn't good, but they actually rank 8th right now in percentage of capacity that they fill on a nightly basis. Their arena is one of the smaller ones, so they are about middle of the pack in total attendance, but they've filled an average of 97.5 pct of the building per night this season and were having sell-out after sell-out in the second half of last season.

They seemed to be on their death until middle of last season when the team finally caught fire with the fans, but they are a hot item in NOLA right now.

Last edited on Sat Feb 21st, 2009 10:12 pm by BayouBoogie

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HBF wrote: Married Jo wrote: The Charlotte Bobcats. Nobody gives a shit, we cared about the Hornets. The Hornets should have never left. Now they are losing money like crazy, nobody comes to see them in New Orleans, and nobody comes to see the Bobcats in Charlotte. Bunch of bullshit. Fuck George Shinn.
While we're on the topic, why are the Utah Jazz still "the Jazz".  Mormons don't know anything about the genre.
Why are the Hornets know in New Orleans?  Why not rename them the Jazz?

Makes little sense.


I agree, New Orleans should have kept the Jazz name.  There were rumors that the ownership group that had worked out a deal to buy the Timberwolves back in 94 were negotiating with Utah for the name and colors, but the NBA blocked the sale and kept the team in Minneapolis.  I don't remember talk about it when the Hornets came. It seems like people were talking about it the year before when many thought we'd be getting the Grizzlies, though my memory could be playing tricks on me.

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The Phoenix Coyotes are hanging on by a thread no matter what Gary Buttman tells you. His problem is if he admits defeat and the team contracts there, it might start a domino-effect that will see a lot of the southern NHL teams that are hanging on by two or three threads tumble in the short-term as well.

Bettman's legacy is expansion into those markets, and if they go, so does his legacy.

Long-time hockey fans mostly (all?) think Bettman is an ass and he's gonna end up getting what he paid for. In the end the NHL will be better off for the contractions that seem almost inevitable now.

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BayouBoogie wrote:
HBF wrote: Married Jo wrote: The Charlotte Bobcats. Nobody gives a shit, we cared about the Hornets. The Hornets should have never left. Now they are losing money like crazy, nobody comes to see them in New Orleans, and nobody comes to see the Bobcats in Charlotte. Bunch of bullshit. Fuck George Shinn.
While we're on the topic, why are the Utah Jazz still "the Jazz".  Mormons don't know anything about the genre.
Why are the Hornets know in New Orleans?  Why not rename them the Jazz?

Makes little sense.


I agree, New Orleans should have kept the Jazz name.  There were rumors that the ownership group that had worked out a deal to buy the Timberwolves back in 94 were negotiating with Utah for the name and colors, but the NBA blocked the sale and kept the team in Minneapolis.  I don't remember talk about it when the Hornets came. It seems like people were talking about it the year before when many thought we'd be getting the Grizzlies, though my memory could be playing tricks on me.


When the Jazz were purchased and moved to Utah, part of the stipulations, for some bizarre reason, were that they keep the Jazz name.

I think that boxing promoter Bob Arum was part of the group that wanted to purchase the Minnesota Timberwolves and move them to New Orleans. I don't remember anything about a name change, although it's possible.

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At least a dozen in the NHL. The Florida Marlins, Memphis Grizzlies & Oklahoma City Thunder.

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As much as I like hockey, I don't think the Thrashers are all that a successful an experiment the second time around.  They have a small but loyal base, which I am happy to see, but they really should be doing better both on the ice and financially.
Instead, they have not had a winning program (except for one year, whereby they traded for every old guy on the block) and they have a terrible ownership situation that is a major legal undertaking.

I'd be surprised if they are around 10 years from now.

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Benlen wrote: Ultimark wrote: Pittsburgh Pirates, Florida Marlins, Kansas City Royals, Nashville Predators, Columbus Blue Jackets (or whatever they are called).    T he NFL and NBA don't seem to have any obvious teams to fold.  Too early to tell on The Thunder.

The Nats are on the death list but I am not ready to pull the trigger.  There is a reason why baseball failed twice in DC.

The Nationals had a better attendence record than the A's last year. If they should go the A's should too.

The A's are profitable.  Contract the Giants, they piss buckets of money.

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beejmi wrote:
NBA - No need for Oklahoma City. Or the Clippers.

NFL - Arizona - gotta go.


They went. All the way to the Super Bowl.

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I think teams that just recently moved like the Nationals and the Thunder need a few years to take root with their new base, and the new stadium in DC will probably ensure the team stays around for a while. I wouldn't be surprised to see more people attending Nats games now that they're out of RFK which was the last of the horrible-for-baseball 70's cookie cutter stadiums.


I agree with the hawkster that there's a ton of NHL teams that should probably be circling the bowl right now. It was just insanity to add so many teams in non hockey markets at a time where the game should have been focused on getting a better foothold in the US sports conscience. Now the NHL is still the #3 or #4 sport in most of their cities and probably 1/3rd of their teams are in cities where no one gives a shit.

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BuddyPSHayes wrote: beejmi wrote:
NBA - No need for Oklahoma City. Or the Clippers.

NFL - Arizona - gotta go.


They went. All the way to the Super Bowl.

Great one Super Bowl appearance in how many years and they are untouchable now? Pro football in Arizona has been a miserable failure.

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beejmi wrote:
BuddyPSHayes wrote: beejmi wrote:
NBA - No need for Oklahoma City. Or the Clippers.

NFL - Arizona - gotta go.


They went. All the way to the Super Bowl.

Great one Super Bowl appearance in how many years and they are untouchable now? Pro football in Arizona has been a miserable failure.


They have as many championships as the Eagles, let's get rid of them too.

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No the answer isn't "championships" on this one - they have yet to establish a fan base even after twenty years there.

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The Cards operarated at 101.1 % attendance this year

You have teams like Detroit who were at 83.8, Chicago at 92.7, Buffalo at 89.2, Atlanta at 89.9 and Miami at 87.0

 

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They have had one good year in the past twenty. The Cowboys or Steelers come to town and enjoy a home game away from home.  An embarassment.

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In 2007 they were 101.9 %

In 2006 they were 100.3 %

Prior to that they played in that shithole in Tempe. Seems like with the move to the new stadium they have turned things around.

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Charlotte Bobcats-Why would you put a team there, after the first one failed?

Portland Trailblazers-Just because they suck.

LA Clippers-need i say more? have they even had 1 winning season?

 

 

In regards to the Marlins-Why would you disband a team that's won 2 ws, and been more successful than some long time teams?

 

The Washington Nationals need to be gone. baseball in Washington died out in the 60's, why would you put another team there?

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To be fair, the Hornets didn't fail in Charlotte, their owner is a douchebag.


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NJRob65 wrote: BayouBoogie wrote:
HBF wrote: Married Jo wrote: The Charlotte Bobcats. Nobody gives a shit, we cared about the Hornets. The Hornets should have never left. Now they are losing money like crazy, nobody comes to see them in New Orleans, and nobody comes to see the Bobcats in Charlotte. Bunch of bullshit. Fuck George Shinn.
While we're on the topic, why are the Utah Jazz still "the Jazz".  Mormons don't know anything about the genre.
Why are the Hornets know in New Orleans?  Why not rename them the Jazz?

Makes little sense.


I agree, New Orleans should have kept the Jazz name.  There were rumors that the ownership group that had worked out a deal to buy the Timberwolves back in 94 were negotiating with Utah for the name and colors, but the NBA blocked the sale and kept the team in Minneapolis.  I don't remember talk about it when the Hornets came. It seems like people were talking about it the year before when many thought we'd be getting the Grizzlies, though my memory could be playing tricks on me.


When the Jazz were purchased and moved to Utah, part of the stipulations, for some bizarre reason, were that they keep the Jazz name.

I think that boxing promoter Bob Arum was part of the group that wanted to purchase the Minnesota Timberwolves and move them to New Orleans. I don't remember anything about a name change, although it's possible.


Yeah, Bob Arum was the front man of the group.  They supposedly were working on a deal to buy the Jazz name and colors from Utah.  The group actually did "purchase" the group pending approval by the NBA, but Stern put the ixnay on it the whole thing.  That's about when plans for the New Orleans arena started moving, so they'd have something to show the NBA the next time they got a shot at a franchise.

Last edited on Sun Feb 22nd, 2009 04:08 pm by BayouBoogie

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stingmark wrote: Charlotte Bobcats-Why would you put a team there, after the first one failed?



As sek said, The Hornets were very popular for many years in Charlotte.  It was the majority owner who is a terrible owner.  He angered the fans then took the team elsewhere. 

The Hornets were popular enough in Charlotte that the league promised them the franchise that would later be named the Bobcats before the Hornets even left town.

Last edited on Sun Feb 22nd, 2009 04:12 pm by BayouBoogie

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The owners of the Bobcats are totally incompetent. That team had a chance to be successful, but has been ruined by ownership that has not only failed from a basketball standpoint, but has also completely failed from an operations and sales and marketing standpoint as well. They constantly make the wrong choices and do everything on the cheap. For instance construction of their arena was approved in 2002, ground was broken for their arena in 2003, it opened in 2005, yet it took until 2008 for the Bobcats to obtain a naming rights sponsor for the building. How could it have taken six years to get a name on that arena?

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sek69 wrote:
To be fair, the Hornets didn't fail in Charlotte, their owner is a douchebag.





George Shinn(?) was pretty much despised by most fans, who refused to support the team.

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Florida Panthers, Atlanta Thrashers, Nashville Predators and Phoenix Coyotes.  All 4 could easily be contracted or relocated.

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Ultimark wrote: Pittsburgh Pirates, Florida Marlins, Kansas City Royals, Nashville Predators, Columbus Blue Jackets (or whatever they are called).    T he NFL and NBA don't seem to have any obvious teams to fold.  Too early to tell on The Thunder.

The Nats are on the death list but I am not ready to pull the trigger.  There is a reason why baseball failed twice in DC.

Columbus will make the playoffs this season.  Nashville, i agree with.

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broke wrote: Florida Panthers, Atlanta Thrashers, Nashville Predators and Phoenix Coyotes.  All 4 could easily be contracted or relocated.
add Tampa Bay to that list as well.

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khawk wrote:

Long-time hockey fans mostly (all?) think Bettman is an ass and he's gonna end up getting what he paid for. In the end the NHL will be better off for the contractions that seem almost inevitable now.

post of the year!!!   that's why you were a former poster of the year winner! :D

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NBA - don't really care, how about the whole league

NFL - Jacksonville, has trouble drawing.

        - Detroit, just a joke of a franchise

        - cincinnati, another joke of a franchise

MLB-  kansas city, texas, florida, pittsburgh, washington,

NHL-  phoenix, tampa, florida, nashville -  just move them somewhere else.

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Even though Phoenix is on the brink, would the NHL really let that team fail? As bad as the NHL comes across due to having some weak clubs, it would arguably look worse if a team folded. No NFL, MLB, NBA or NHL team has folded in over 30 years and you have to go back about 50 years prior to that instance to find another one. Even when MLB played the contraction game in the early 2000s, it was just posturing. The union was never going to let that happen and Selig and company knew it. It was just a bluff by the owners to negotiate a better contract and get a salary cap.

Last edited on Mon Feb 23rd, 2009 04:09 am by tamalie

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tamalie wrote: Even though Phoenix is on the brink, would the NHL really let that team fail? As bad as the NHL comes across due to having some weak clubs, it would arguably look worse if a team folded.

 

It's bleeding money and the other owners are being asked to prop it up for Bettman's sake. They'll only allow that for so long.

Short-term, the league might look bad if some teams went bye-bye, but it would only benefit the game and the other owners in the long-term and when it comes down to $$$ for the owners, that's all that matters in the end.

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The funny thing about franchises is that even the worst is only one move away from improvement.

The Steelers were absolute dogshit from the time they were founded in 1933 to about 1972 or so. As much as Art Rooney Sr. is considered a God around here, it wasn't until Dan started running the team  that things started to turn around. Conventional wisdom has it that the team's 1-13 finish in 1969 allowed them to be in a position to draft 6 HOF'ers in 2 years, but the real root is that it was when Dan started calling the shots. This is a team that had had Johnny Unitas for a season and didn't see anything in him, the honest truth (and this could get me thrown out of town) is that Art was not that good in determining talent. Dan has an almost X-Men level mutant power when it comes to sensing talent, and that's why the team went from perennial doormat to a 6 time champion and model for all sports franchises.

What I'm saying is you never know, the owner of a shitty team can die/sell the team and the next thing you know a franchise bound for the scrap heap is one of the elite teams.

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I've seen the KC Royals mentioned a few times here. It's sad to see what has become of this franchise. The Royals in the late 70's and early 80's up to their Championship in 1985 were one of the AL's best teams. They had some great teams. Lots of memories of George Brett, Frank White, Willie Wilson, Hal McRae and others.

It seems like once their owner Ewing Kaufman died..so did the franchise. I always think that one day this team will be competitve again.  Believe it or not KC is a pretty good baseball town.  The sad thing is they haven't had much to cheer for in almost 25 years. I for one would like to see them have a winning season and make the playoffs again at some point soon.

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The Royals are in a terrible division so ya never know.

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khawk wrote: tamalie wrote: Even though Phoenix is on the brink, would the NHL really let that team fail? As bad as the NHL comes across due to having some weak clubs, it would arguably look worse if a team folded.

 

It's bleeding money and the other owners are being asked to prop it up for Bettman's sake. They'll only allow that for so long.

Short-term, the league might look bad if some teams went bye-bye, but it would only benefit the game and the other owners in the long-term and when it comes down to $$$ for the owners, that's all that matters in the end.

It's not going to happen.  They did not let Ottawa or Buffalo go when they basically went tits up a few years back, and it has Gretzky pimping for it......saying that, I would like to see about 24 teams in the NHL, Fuck Phoenix.

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khawk wrote: tamalie wrote: Even though Phoenix is on the brink, would the NHL really let that team fail? As bad as the NHL comes across due to having some weak clubs, it would arguably look worse if a team folded.

 

It's bleeding money and the other owners are being asked to prop it up for Bettman's sake. They'll only allow that for so long.

Short-term, the league might look bad if some teams went bye-bye, but it would only benefit the game and the other owners in the long-term and when it comes down to $$$ for the owners, that's all that matters in the end.

i read last night that there is another investor willing to help out with the bills in Phoenix.

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freebirdsforever2001 wrote: khawk wrote:
i read last night that there is another investor willing to help out with the bills in Phoenix.


There has been a lot of speculation in the press that this investor is a sock created by Bettman to fuel his "EVERYTHING IS FINE, NOTHING TO SEE HERE!!!" fire with the yotes.

 It wouldn't surprise me, frankly.

tamalie
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It didn’t get very serious, but around 1981 or so, the NBA considered dumping some of its weak sister teams. The idea was that by putting down some chronically struggling teams that seemed to have largely zero hope of ever getting better, the NBA would gain overall strength, especially by concentrating talent on the remaining teams. Needless to say, the union was not thrilled about this idea and it didn't go anywhere. 

The teams scheduled for folding, some of which subsequently became model teams, were the San Diego Clippers, Utah Jazz, Kansas City Kings, Cleveland Cavaliers, Indiana Pacers, Atlanta Hawks, and New Jersey Nets. None of these teams drew. Most of them were mediocre to horrible on the floor. Many of them were on the brink of folding anyway. 

The NBA then would have looked like this.

Eastern Conference

Atlantic Division
Boston Celtics
New York Knicks
Philadelphia 76ers
Washington Bullets

Central Division
Chicago Bulls
Denver Nuggets
Detroit Pistons
Milwaukee Bucks

Western Conference

Southwest Division
Dallas Mavericks
Houston Rockets
Phoenix Suns
San Antonio Spurs

Pacific Division
Golden State Warriors
Los Angeles Lakers
Portland Trailblazers
Seattle Supersonics

Last edited on Mon Feb 23rd, 2009 07:49 pm by tamalie

Heretic



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As much as "Utah Jazz" is a contradiction in terms, it's still a better name than the Utah Teetotaling Polygamists.

Count Grog
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As a Pirate fan since 1969 (ok maybe longer I just don't remember) I would never want to seethe Bucs moved.  they have a long tradition in the city of Pittsburgh.  That being said the current ownership should be eliminated and forced to sell to someone like Mark Cuban who would spend the $$ to make them competitive again.   But if you have to move them Charlotte would be a close drive for me to see more games.  With a money making new ball park they are not going any where.

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Count Grog wrote:  a Pirate fan since 1969

Look, our own version of Travlr. :)

"The reason so many of us complain is becasue Mr. Stargell spoiled us."--Barry Jordan

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Any NHL Franchise further south then St. Louis, or Washington.


silentkiller



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tamalie wrote: It didn’t get very serious, but around 1981 or so, the NBA considered dumping some of its weak sister teams. The idea was that by putting down some chronically struggling teams that seemed to have largely zero hope of ever getting better, the NBA would gain overall strength, especially by concentrating talent on the remaining teams. Needless to say, the union was not thrilled about this idea and it didn't go anywhere. 

The teams scheduled for folding, some of which subsequently became model teams, were the San Diego Clippers, Utah Jazz, Kansas City Kings, Cleveland Cavaliers, Indiana Pacers, Atlanta Hawks, and New Jersey Nets. None of these teams drew. Most of them were mediocre to horrible on the floor. Many of them were on the brink of folding anyway. 

The NBA then would have looked like this.

Eastern Conference

Atlantic Division
Boston Celtics
New York Knicks
Philadelphia 76ers
Washington Bullets

Central Division
Chicago Bulls
Denver Nuggets
Detroit Pistons
Milwaukee Bucks

Western Conference

Southwest Division
Dallas Mavericks
Houston Rockets
Phoenix Suns
San Antonio Spurs

Pacific Division
Golden State Warriors
Los Angeles Lakers
Portland Trailblazers
Seattle Supersonics

I think that would have been a terrific move if the league had done that.

BigJ



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khawk wrote: Count Grog wrote:  a Pirate fan since 1969

Look, our own version of Travlr. :)

"The reason so many of us complain is becasue Mr. Stargell spoiled us."--Barry Jordan

lmfao

tamalie
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What is the current status of the Phoenix Coyotes? Are they going to make it in Arizona, move elsewhere or just shut down?

Papa Voo



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khawk wrote: Count Grog wrote:  a Pirate fan since 1969

Look, our own version of Travlr. :)

"The reason so many of us complain is becasue Mr. Stargell spoiled us."--Barry Jordan


LOL! 

 

That is funny!

freebirdsforever2001
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tamalie wrote: What is the current status of the Phoenix Coyotes? Are they going to make it in Arizona, move elsewhere or just shut down?
they will stay in Phoenix. they are getting help soon.



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