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 Posted: Tue Apr 14th, 2009 08:56 pm
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srossi

 

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http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2009-04-13-columbine-myths_N.htm?se=yahoorefer



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 Posted: Tue Apr 14th, 2009 09:24 pm
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So Alex Wright lost his push in vain.



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 Posted: Wed Apr 15th, 2009 02:12 am
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I knew they were good boys all along.



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 Posted: Wed Apr 15th, 2009 02:29 am
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thunderbolt
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"These are not ordinary kids who were bullied into retaliation," psychologist Peter Langman writes in his new book, Why Kids Kill: Inside the Minds of School Shooters. "These are not ordinary kids who played too many video games. These are not ordinary kids who just wanted to be famous. These are simply not ordinary kids. These are kids with serious psychological problems."



It took a ten year study to come up with this?  I could have told you this the day it happened.  People were so desperate to come up with some grander scheme than a couple of misfit fucknuts with access to firearms that they managed to paint those sociopaths as victims in their own right.  Sometimes the magnitude of the crime is actually greater than the worth of the perpetrator.



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 Posted: Wed Apr 15th, 2009 02:33 am
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srossi

 

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thunderbolt wrote: "These are not ordinary kids who were bullied into retaliation," psychologist Peter Langman writes in his new book, Why Kids Kill: Inside the Minds of School Shooters. "These are not ordinary kids who played too many video games. These are not ordinary kids who just wanted to be famous. These are simply not ordinary kids. These are kids with serious psychological problems."



It took a ten year study to come up with this?  I could have told you this the day it happened.  People were so desperate to come up with some grander scheme than a couple of misfit fucknuts with access to firearms that they managed to paint those sociopaths as victims in their own right.  Sometimes the magnitude of the crime is actually greater than the worth of the perpetrator.

You're overlooking the fact that you have a brain and most Americans don't.  For the last 10 years it's been ALL the fault of Marilyn Manson and violent video games.  They were perfectly normal kids other than that.



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 Posted: Wed Apr 15th, 2009 02:44 am
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I liked the theory of the government having a base dealing with mind control in the near vicinity and these kids were selected as guineau pigs for some experiment.  Does anybody remember that one?



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 Posted: Wed Apr 15th, 2009 02:59 am
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srossi

 

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Papa Voo wrote: I liked the theory of the government having a base dealing with mind control in the near vicinity and these kids were selected as guineau pigs for some experiment.  Does anybody remember that one?
I don't remember that but I think that's more realistic than the crap that the mainstream media actually did believe.



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 Posted: Wed Apr 15th, 2009 11:54 am
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srossi wrote: Papa Voo wrote: I liked the theory of the government having a base dealing with mind control in the near vicinity and these kids were selected as guineau pigs for some experiment.  Does anybody remember that one?
I don't remember that but I think that's more realistic than the crap that the mainstream media actually did believe.

It was the doing of Dick Cheney and Karl Rove. 

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 Posted: Wed Apr 15th, 2009 02:17 pm
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Manson is happy that it took them so long to come clear, otherwise his career would have been a lot worse.

All the school shooters over here have parents with vast amounts of weapons and ammo, yet nobody gets it. At least only Counterstrike is deemed "responsible" and not every damn outsider kid who will only get treated even worse as he is now officially a menace to society

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 Posted: Wed Apr 15th, 2009 02:41 pm
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dogfacedgremlin34
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indikator wrote: All the school shooters over here have parents with vast amounts of weapons and ammo, yet nobody gets it.

My favorite mode of thought to come out of Columbine and all these other school shootings (Virginia Tech immediately comes to mind) is the widespread belief that if students, teachers, janitors et al had all been packing heat in the form of concealed firearms, most of those killed on that day would've been spared.

Maybe that's true...for that one day.  But I can almost guarantee that if everybody on campus had been carrying firearms, the numbers would've been made up--and then some--over a longer period of time.  (MONDAY:  "What?!  That professor gave me a 'D' on my term paper?!  Screw him!  I'm gonna pop a cap in his ass!"  TUESDAY:  "What!?  My girlfriend, Mary Jane Rottencrotch, was seen making out with the captain of the chess team!  I gonna shoot 'em both!"  And so on...)

It never ceases to amaze me that, in the wake of all the school shootings in this country, very few ever comes out to question the ease of availability and sheer number of guns that find their way into the hands of your average citizen.  It's just out-and-out lunacy to me. 

I'd love for some of the contributors on this board from across the pond (kargol comes to mind) to share your thoughts on the gun laws in the US.

Last edited on Wed Apr 15th, 2009 02:42 pm by dogfacedgremlin34



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 Posted: Wed Apr 15th, 2009 02:45 pm
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srossi

 

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dogfacedgremlin34 wrote: indikator wrote: All the school shooters over here have parents with vast amounts of weapons and ammo, yet nobody gets it.


Maybe that's true...for that one day.  But I can almost guarantee that if everybody on campus had been carrying firearms, the numbers would've been made up--and then some--over a longer period of time.  (MONDAY:  "What?!  That professor gave me a 'D' on my term paper?!  Screw him!  I'm gonna pop a cap in his ass!"  TUESDAY:  "What!?  My girlfriend, Mary Jane Rottencrotch, was seen making out with the captain of the chess team!  I gonna shoot 'em both!"  And so on...)



Well that's not true.  Just because you have a gun doesn't mean you're going to start shooting people for frivolous reasons.  I'm no gun-toting redneck like Jianita, but that's a ridiculous exaggeration along the lines of "If pot was legal, everyone would be stoned all the time."  Just because things are available doesn't mean 99.9% of people will take it to extremes. 



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 Posted: Wed Apr 15th, 2009 02:56 pm
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dogfacedgremlin34
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srossi wrote: dogfacedgremlin34 wrote: indikator wrote: All the school shooters over here have parents with vast amounts of weapons and ammo, yet nobody gets it.


Maybe that's true...for that one day.  But I can almost guarantee that if everybody on campus had been carrying firearms, the numbers would've been made up--and then some--over a longer period of time.  (MONDAY:  "What?!  That professor gave me a 'D' on my term paper?!  Screw him!  I'm gonna pop a cap in his ass!"  TUESDAY:  "What!?  My girlfriend, Mary Jane Rottencrotch, was seen making out with the captain of the chess team!  I gonna shoot 'em both!"  And so on...)



Well that's not true.  Just because you have a gun doesn't mean you're going to start shooting people for frivolous reasons.  I'm no gun-toting redneck like Jianita, but that's a ridiculous exaggeration along the lines of "If pot was legal, everyone would be stoned all the time."  Just because things are available doesn't mean 99.9% of people will take it to extremes. 


Maybe...but you could say that about anything, really.  The only tangible similarity in all these stories in (1) easy access to guns and (2) some highly unstable lunatics.  The body count in any instance would have been much, much lower had guns not been so easily available. 

Take Columbine; the body count would've been a fraction of what it was had high powered firearms not been so easily available.  It's already been revealed that their plan to plant bombs throughout the building failed.  What was their next option were guns not available.  Knives?  Baseball bats?  Nun-chuks?  Again, the body count would've been fractional.  A carpenter's only as good as his tools, after all.

So again, I look to other countries--and especially the UK--to ask how they function in their day-to-day lives without every Tom, Dick, and Harry being able to buy a handgun at the local Asda.  How safe do they feel on a daily basis without the availability of guns?  How many school or university shootings do they have in any given year? 

Are British folks as crazy as Americans?  Probably, maybe even crazier.  Yet per capita homicides are much, much lower.  The difference is, they just aren't able to make snap judgements to kill quite as easily as your average American can.

And just so we're clear...I'm not necessarily arguing guns' availability.  I'm arguing their ease of availability.  (Although really, if the US would ever adopt a gunless society ala the UK, I certainly wouldn't shed a tear.  It'll never happen, though.) 



Last edited on Wed Apr 15th, 2009 03:03 pm by dogfacedgremlin34



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 Posted: Wed Apr 15th, 2009 03:03 pm
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srossi

 

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dogfacedgremlin34 wrote: srossi wrote: dogfacedgremlin34 wrote: indikator wrote: All the school shooters over here have parents with vast amounts of weapons and ammo, yet nobody gets it.


Maybe that's true...for that one day.  But I can almost guarantee that if everybody on campus had been carrying firearms, the numbers would've been made up--and then some--over a longer period of time.  (MONDAY:  "What?!  That professor gave me a 'D' on my term paper?!  Screw him!  I'm gonna pop a cap in his ass!"  TUESDAY:  "What!?  My girlfriend, Mary Jane Rottencrotch, was seen making out with the captain of the chess team!  I gonna shoot 'em both!"  And so on...)



Well that's not true.  Just because you have a gun doesn't mean you're going to start shooting people for frivolous reasons.  I'm no gun-toting redneck like Jianita, but that's a ridiculous exaggeration along the lines of "If pot was legal, everyone would be stoned all the time."  Just because things are available doesn't mean 99.9% of people will take it to extremes. 


Maybe...but you could say that about anything, really.  The only tangible similarity in all these stories in (1) easy access to guns and (2) some highly unstable lunatics.  The body count in any instance would have been much, much lower had guns not been so easily available. 

Take Columbine; the body count would've been a fraction of what it was had high powered firearms not been so easily available.  It's already been revealed that their plan to plant bombs throughout the building failed.  What was their next option were guns not available.  Knives?  Baseball bats?  Again, a fractional body count.

So again, I look to other countries--and especially the UK--to ask how they function in their day-to-day lives without every Tom, Dick, and Harry being able to buy a handgun at the local Asda.  How safe do they feel on a daily basis.  How many school or university shootings do they have in any given year?  Are their people as crazy as Americans?  Probably, maybe even crazier.  The difference is, they just aren't able to make snap judgements to kill quite as easily as American can.

And just so we're clear...I'm not necessarily arguing guns' availability.  I'm arguing their ease of availability.  Although really, if the US would ever adopt a gunless society ala the UK, I certainly wouldn't shed a tear.  It'll never happen, though. 


 

I don't think that high-powered weapons are all that easy for high school kids to get.  I think that you're just always going to have a handful of people out there who are crazy and very committed to doing something like this and you're not going to be able to stop all of them all of the time.  People go nuts and they kill people.  Always have, always will.  No politician can say that but it's true.  And trying to reinvent the wheel and to prevent things that can't be prevented is a waste of time. 



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 Posted: Wed Apr 15th, 2009 03:09 pm
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dogfacedgremlin34
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srossi wrote: I don't think that high-powered weapons are all that easy for high school kids to get. 

Do you have internet access and a credit card?  Voila, you have a high powered rifle.


srossi wrote:

I think that you're just always going to have a handful of people out there who are crazy and very committed to doing something like this and you're not going to be able to stop all of them all of the time.  People go nuts and they kill people.  Always have, always will.  No politician can say that but it's true. 


But my main issue is the snap-judgement killings.  How many firearm killings are committed in the heat of the moment?  How many would never had occured had firearms not been so easily available.  I'll even go so far to say that 99.9% of all school killings would never had occured if those who committed them didn't think they could get their hands on guns.   

srossi wrote:

And trying to reinvent the wheel and to prevent things that can't be prevented is a waste of time. 


Ask a Brit if they think reinventing the wheel is a waste of time.



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 Posted: Wed Apr 15th, 2009 03:23 pm
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srossi

 

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srossi wrote: I don't think that high-powered weapons are all that easy for high school kids to get. 

Do you have internet access and a credit card?  Voila, you have a high powered rifle.


I doubt it's that easy.  Have you tried to do this?

srossi wrote:


I think that you're just always going to have a handful of people out there who are crazy and very committed to doing something like this and you're not going to be able to stop all of them all of the time.  People go nuts and they kill people.  Always have, always will.  No politician can say that but it's true. 



But my main issue is the snap-judgement killings.  How many firearm killings are committed in the heat of the moment?  How many would never had occured had firearms not been so easily available.  I'll even go so far to say that 99.9% of all school killings would never had occured if those who committed them didn't think they could get their hands on guns.   


I totally disagree.  I don't think many killings are snap-judgement and if you're that enraged that you're thrown into a murderous rampage on the spur of the moment then you can kill someone with anything.  Certainly school shootings aren't snap-judgement, they're all planned out in detail.  These kids were going to find a way.

srossi wrote:


And trying to reinvent the wheel and to prevent things that can't be prevented is a waste of time. 



Ask a Brit if they think reinventing the wheel is a waste of time.


You're putting England on a pedestal like people put Canada on a pedestal about health care.  The grass is always greener on the other side.  People get killed in England just like they do everywhere else.  In fact there's been a huge epidemic of pub brawls leading to death over the past 3 years, numbers far surpassing anything we see here.  They're not shooting each other, they're just drunkenly beating each other to death and this happens on a weekly basis.  So maybe England should try prohibition, that worked so well here.  America has actually never been safer on the average. 




 

Last edited on Wed Apr 15th, 2009 03:26 pm by srossi



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