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| Moderated by: Ron, brodiescomics, beejmi | Page: 1 2   |
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| Can wrestling be "fixed"? | Rate Topic |
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| Posted: Sat Nov 28th, 2020 12:14 pm |
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1st Post |
nyhack56
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Open ended question here meant for discussion. The general consensus seems to be the product is not as good as it once was. Can it be turned around? Has the world evolved away from it? Can it at least be cyclical again? Will someone other than WWE take the ball and run with it? Will it ever get mainstream hot again? Will it ever be allowed to by a promoter? Just some random questions to either answer or provide your own thoughts.
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| Posted: Sat Nov 28th, 2020 12:32 pm |
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2nd Post |
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Kriss Citizen of nowhere 
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The "cyclical" thing is bullshit. It was just an excuse for unsuccessful promoters and bookers to use. It meant that they didn't have to try to change or improve anything. I can't think of any time that business picked up without something huge sparking it. If WWE could write half as well as AEW could, wrestling would be huge right now. There has always been good US wrestling if you know where to look. AEW are the only UD promotion that have managed to look big time, though.
____________________ “Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.” ― Mark Twain |
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| Posted: Sat Nov 28th, 2020 12:37 pm |
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3rd Post |
Boz1515
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WWE has gone out of their way to never allow any individual star to get bigger than the company again. They probably think that will prevent a Hogan/Hall/Nash scenario where a star bigger than the company leaves and they become #2 again. Until that philosophy changes, I don't believe so. This has led to 50/50 booking and mediocrity. Last edited on Sat Nov 28th, 2020 12:38 pm by Boz1515 |
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| Posted: Sat Nov 28th, 2020 12:44 pm |
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4th Post |
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beejmi THE BIG KAHUNA 
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Is there a time window on this? Yes and no. Eventually there will be another Hogan/Rock/Austin/Flair come along. That will spark interest again. However I don't see him or her on any roster. Part of it being what it has become is that it went from small to big to corporate. That makes it 'profitable' but in terms of it being enjoyable to the long-time fans, probably not.
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| Posted: Sat Nov 28th, 2020 01:20 pm |
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5th Post |
GregOliver
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Boz1515 wrote: WWE has gone out of their way to never allow any individual star to get bigger than the company again. They probably think that will prevent a Hogan/Hall/Nash scenario where a star bigger than the company leaves and they become #2 again. Until that philosophy changes, I don't believe so. This has led to 50/50 booking and mediocrity. This. There have been times I have been very excited about talent, that you could see that they had an "it factor" that could have translated into something even bigger, and they either got chopped down or injured. Bayley in NXT, the hugger, booked properly could have been a massive star to tweens and brought in a whole new demographic. No one was hotter than Becky Lynch for a time and then ... pffft. Even a year ago, we were all raving about MJF and his potential to crack through and be a super-heel, and ... instead he's dancing in inane skits. We were all high on Velveteen Dream, despite the stupid name, and he got #SpeakingOuted and pushed down. ... Also, it comes down to mystique. You want to buy into these characters, and find them interesting. Therefore I don't want to know about their personal lives, see what they had for lunch posted to their Instagram account, and Twitter feuds are dumb. I might argue the only one in a major (and it's a loose term here) that fits that bill is MLW champion Jacob Fatu since he doesn't do interviews, doesn't do socials and has a mouthpiece manager. Brock Lesnar would fall in there too, if he was actually working. He's at least always intriguing, and you're never sure what's up with him. But he has zero interest in a full-time schedule and being the face of the company and all that entails.
____________________ goliver845@gmail.com Producer, https://SlamWrestling.net Author, http://www.OliverBooks.ca |
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| Posted: Sat Nov 28th, 2020 02:04 pm |
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6th Post |
indikator
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I am a bit unsure when it comes to your point about "mystique". In the very old times, if you had that the newspapers immediately tried to solve it (though I am unsure if the promoters weren't in on it, as it would have been publicity for their shows anyways). The most famous instance might be the Masked Marvel in NYC 1915, who even "fled" the journalists on a motorcycle. And you know what? That shit was 99% recycled as it happened in Vienna in 1909 and I assume the Zbyszkos were responsible for booking this situation in NYC. Why do I say 99% ? In Vienna the guy used a horse carriage instead of a motorcycle. Hopefully somebody got upset about that type of progress as people are nowadays about social media usage.
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| Posted: Sat Nov 28th, 2020 03:09 pm |
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7th Post |
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Kriss Citizen of nowhere
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GregOliver wrote: Even a year ago, we were all raving about MJF and his potential to crack through and be a super-heel, and ... instead he's dancing in inane skits. One skit, singular. It was easily the most talked about thing in wrestling that week, and got them loads of buzz. They knew some people would hate it. If he was doing it every week, it would be ridiculous, but he only did it once. I think his push has been handled pretty well.
____________________ “Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.” ― Mark Twain |
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| Posted: Sat Nov 28th, 2020 03:46 pm |
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8th Post |
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martini Wrestling Classics Owner 
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Wrestling has been fixed since Lou Thez won the World title.
____________________ Shaken, but not stirred. |
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| Posted: Sat Nov 28th, 2020 05:18 pm |
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9th Post |
GregOliver
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indikator wrote: I am a bit unsure when it comes to your point about "mystique". I get it. Times have changed. But back then, the wrestlers weren't so desperate to be noticed, to have you listen to their podcast, to follow their socials, to buy their t-shirts, to spend even more for private sites. (And I recognize that during the pandemic, all that is amplified.) When you can see someone all the time, they ain't that special. Same reason you have to work at a marriage, I suppose. ;-)
____________________ goliver845@gmail.com Producer, https://SlamWrestling.net Author, http://www.OliverBooks.ca |
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| Posted: Sat Nov 28th, 2020 11:37 pm |
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10th Post |
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beejmi THE BIG KAHUNA
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The internet doesn't help. Can't keep a secret. No surprises.
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| Posted: Sun Nov 29th, 2020 01:49 am |
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11th Post |
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Franchise Low key big hog 
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I think it can be done The E need needs to trim the talent pool way back across all brands and let people go where they go and then resign talent to short purpose driven contracts (either to bring them in for a few matches to see if they mesh or to feed them to a core roster member). The Yang gang might sort this out for Vince if they get any traction. I doubt Vince is going to see value in singing a non draw long term just to keep he away from the comp if he has to provide medical and pay them a union negotiated wage. I know it’s old now but I think LU’s scripted back stage stuff was at least 10x better than anything the E has done back stage in my memory.
____________________ "Beginning this week, Nitro is going head-to-head with Thunder in Australia" - The Wrestling Observer Newsletter: January 22, 2001 |
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| Posted: Sun Nov 29th, 2020 01:55 am |
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12th Post |
freebirdsforever2019
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Bill Apter said that he didn't know that it was even broken.
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| Posted: Sun Nov 29th, 2020 02:04 am |
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13th Post |
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Franchise Low key big hog
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GregOliver wrote: indikator wrote:I am a bit unsure when it comes to your point about "mystique". Not to mention all of the E original content once they bring someone in. I also think the vibrant non E scene pre pandemic hurt the E long term. Even if a person hadn’t seen Matt Riddle prior to NXT once they did they could easily go online and find 30 matches or highlight packages of him and get their fill before he ever makes the main roster. Personally Fish is my favorite current day wrestler but I don’t watch NXT or old ROH because I’ve already seen figuratively 1,000 of his matches so it really isn’t special to me. I think the E needs to bring more people directly to Raw or Smackdown and let them sink or swim without the extra polish NXT may provide.
____________________ "Beginning this week, Nitro is going head-to-head with Thunder in Australia" - The Wrestling Observer Newsletter: January 22, 2001 |
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| Posted: Sun Nov 29th, 2020 02:27 am |
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14th Post |
GregOliver
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Franchise wrote:
You just need to stop there. Who has time to listen to their in-house podcasts, the original shows on the Network, the 24/7 title changes on Twitter or YouTube? It's oversaturation to the worst degree.
____________________ goliver845@gmail.com Producer, https://SlamWrestling.net Author, http://www.OliverBooks.ca |
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| Posted: Sun Nov 29th, 2020 04:31 am |
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15th Post |
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srossi HALL OF FAMER
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Franchise wrote: GregOliver wrote:indikator wrote:I am a bit unsure when it comes to your point about "mystique". You completely misunderstand what WWE is doing. They aren't looking to give anyone extra polish. Most of these guys are plenty polished. They're looking to deconstruct them and teach them the WWE way, which is dumbing down their offense. They claim they're teaching them TV, which is fair enough for some of them, but most have gone through NJPW which has amazing production so this standard line that HHH likes to use to make indy guys look inadequate ("They don't even know what a hard cam is!") is mostly bullshit. The funny thing is, until NXT went to USA, I really loved NXT style. I might have liked it even more than NJPW or ROH. There was a certain cadence to their big matches, especially tag matches, that was just flat-out awesome. It was basically a mix of the best of ROH and the best of 1980's NWA. The saves, the hot tags, the psychology, the big spots mixed with doing the little things right, it was all clicking. Everyone was killing it. Even the Authors of Pain were having great matches using this style. And guys that actually had talent like The Revival, Jason Jordan and Chad Gable, and Johnny Gargano and Tomasso Ciampa were just having 5 star classics every time out. I don't know excactly who was responsible for putting together these matches this way, but it was amazing. Then of course they get called up to WWE and it's all forgotten. And once NXT went to USA and Vince realized it existed, NXT style ceased to exist. Now it's like everything else, plenty of good wrestling mixed with plenty of crap, but nothing sticks out for the right reasons. Last edited on Sun Nov 29th, 2020 04:34 am by srossi ____________________ This thread was great before AA ruined it. |
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