WowBB Forums Home 
Home Search search Menu menu Not logged in - Login | Register
WowBB Forums > Sports And Wrestling > Pro Wrestling > Can wrestling be "fixed"?

 Moderated by: Ron, brodiescomics, beejmi Page:    1  2  Next Page Last Page  
New Topic Reply Printer Friendly
Can wrestling be "fixed"?  Rate Topic 
AuthorPost
 Posted: Sat Nov 28th, 2020 12:14 pm
  PM Quote Reply
1st Post
nyhack56

 

Joined: Wed May 15th, 2019
Location:  
Posts: 256
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 
Open ended question here meant for discussion. 
The general consensus seems to be the product is not as good as it once was.  Can it be turned around?  Has the world evolved away from it?  Can it at least be cyclical again?  
Will someone other than WWE take the ball and run with it? 
Will it ever get mainstream hot again?  Will it ever be allowed to by a promoter?
Just some random questions to either answer or provide your own thoughts.

Back To Top PM Quote Reply  

 Posted: Sat Nov 28th, 2020 12:32 pm
  PM Quote Reply
2nd Post
Kriss
Citizen of nowhere


Joined: Wed Dec 12th, 2007
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 10796
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 
The "cyclical" thing is bullshit. It was just an excuse for unsuccessful promoters and bookers to use. It meant that they didn't have to try to change or improve anything. I can't think of any time that business picked up without something huge sparking it.

If WWE could write half as well as AEW could, wrestling would be huge right now.

There has always been good US wrestling if you know where to look. AEW are the only UD promotion that have managed to look big time, though.



____________________
“Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.” ― Mark Twain
Back To Top PM Quote Reply

 Posted: Sat Nov 28th, 2020 12:37 pm
  PM Quote Reply
3rd Post
Boz1515



Joined: Sat May 26th, 2012
Location:  
Posts: 3185
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 
WWE has gone out of their way to never allow any individual star to get bigger than the company again.  They probably think that will prevent a Hogan/Hall/Nash scenario where a star bigger than the company leaves and they become #2 again.  Until that philosophy changes, I don't believe so.  This has led to 50/50 booking and mediocrity.  



Last edited on Sat Nov 28th, 2020 12:38 pm by Boz1515

Back To Top PM Quote Reply  

 Posted: Sat Nov 28th, 2020 12:44 pm
  PM Quote Reply
4th Post
beejmi
THE BIG KAHUNA


Joined: Sat Oct 13th, 2007
Location: Philly
Posts: 51065
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 
Is there a time window on this?

Yes and no.

Eventually there will be another Hogan/Rock/Austin/Flair come along. That will spark interest again.

However I don't see him or her on any roster. 


Part of it being what it has become is that it went from small to big to corporate. That makes it 'profitable' but in terms of it being enjoyable to the long-time fans, probably not.

Back To Top PM Quote Reply

 Posted: Sat Nov 28th, 2020 01:20 pm
  PM Quote Reply
5th Post
GregOliver

 

Joined: Fri Aug 22nd, 2008
Location: Toronto, Ontario Canada
Posts: 488
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 
Boz1515 wrote: WWE has gone out of their way to never allow any individual star to get bigger than the company again.  They probably think that will prevent a Hogan/Hall/Nash scenario where a star bigger than the company leaves and they become #2 again.  Until that philosophy changes, I don't believe so.  This has led to 50/50 booking and mediocrity.  

This. 
There have been times I have been very excited about talent, that you could see that they had an "it factor" that could have translated into something even bigger, and they either got chopped down or injured. 
Bayley in NXT, the hugger, booked properly could have been a massive star to tweens and brought in a whole new demographic.
No one was hotter than Becky Lynch for a time and then ... pffft.
Even a year ago, we were all raving about MJF and his potential to crack through and be a super-heel, and ... instead he's dancing in inane skits.
We were all high on Velveteen Dream, despite the stupid name, and he got #SpeakingOuted and pushed down. 
...
Also, it comes down to mystique. You want to buy into these characters, and find them interesting. Therefore I don't want to know about their personal lives, see what they had for lunch posted to their Instagram account, and Twitter feuds are dumb. I might argue the only one in a major (and it's a loose term here) that fits that bill is MLW champion Jacob Fatu since he doesn't do interviews, doesn't do socials and has a mouthpiece manager. 
Brock Lesnar would fall in there too, if he was actually working. He's at least always intriguing, and you're never sure what's up with him. But he has zero interest in a full-time schedule and being the face of the company and all that entails.



____________________
goliver845@gmail.com
Producer, https://SlamWrestling.net
Author, http://www.OliverBooks.ca
Back To Top PM Quote Reply  

 Posted: Sat Nov 28th, 2020 02:04 pm
  PM Quote Reply
6th Post
indikator

 

Joined: Fri Jan 23rd, 2009
Location: Bratenwender City, Germany
Posts: 2609
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 
I am a bit unsure when it comes to your point about "mystique". In the very old times, if you had that the newspapers immediately tried to solve it (though I am unsure if the promoters weren't in on it, as it would have been publicity for their shows anyways). The most famous instance might be the Masked Marvel in NYC 1915, who even "fled" the journalists on a motorcycle. And you know what? That shit was 99% recycled as it happened in Vienna in 1909 and I assume the Zbyszkos were responsible for booking this situation in NYC. Why do I say 99% ? In Vienna the guy used a horse carriage instead of a motorcycle. Hopefully somebody got upset about that type of progress as people are nowadays about social media usage.

Back To Top PM Quote Reply

 Posted: Sat Nov 28th, 2020 03:09 pm
  PM Quote Reply
7th Post
Kriss
Citizen of nowhere


Joined: Wed Dec 12th, 2007
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 10796
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 
GregOliver wrote: Even a year ago, we were all raving about MJF and his potential to crack through and be a super-heel, and ... instead he's dancing in inane skits.

One skit, singular. It was easily the most talked about thing in wrestling that week, and got them loads of buzz. They knew some people would hate it. If he was doing it every week, it would be ridiculous, but he only did it once. I think his push has been handled pretty well.



____________________
“Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.” ― Mark Twain
Back To Top PM Quote Reply  

 Posted: Sat Nov 28th, 2020 03:46 pm
  PM Quote Reply
8th Post
martini
Wrestling Classics Owner


Joined: Fri Aug 13th, 2010
Location:  
Posts: 4239
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 
Wrestling has been fixed since Lou Thez won the World title.



____________________
Shaken, but not stirred.
Back To Top PM Quote Reply

 Posted: Sat Nov 28th, 2020 05:18 pm
  PM Quote Reply
9th Post
GregOliver

 

Joined: Fri Aug 22nd, 2008
Location: Toronto, Ontario Canada
Posts: 488
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 
indikator wrote: I am a bit unsure when it comes to your point about "mystique".
I get it. Times have changed. But back then, the wrestlers weren't so desperate to be noticed, to have you listen to their podcast, to follow their socials, to buy their t-shirts, to spend even more for private sites. (And I recognize that during the pandemic, all that is amplified.)
When you can see someone all the time, they ain't that special. Same reason you have to work at a marriage, I suppose. ;-)



____________________
goliver845@gmail.com
Producer, https://SlamWrestling.net
Author, http://www.OliverBooks.ca
Back To Top PM Quote Reply  

 Posted: Sat Nov 28th, 2020 11:37 pm
  PM Quote Reply
10th Post
beejmi
THE BIG KAHUNA


Joined: Sat Oct 13th, 2007
Location: Philly
Posts: 51065
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 
The internet doesn't help.

Can't keep a secret. No surprises.

Back To Top PM Quote Reply

 Posted: Sun Nov 29th, 2020 01:49 am
  PM Quote Reply
11th Post
Franchise
Low key big hog


Joined: Mon Oct 15th, 2007
Location: Cincy, Ohio
Posts: 5861
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 
I think it can be done


The E need needs to trim the talent pool way back across all brands and let people go where they go and then resign talent to short purpose driven contracts (either to bring them in for a few matches to see if they mesh or to feed them to a core roster member).


The Yang gang might sort this out for Vince if they get any traction. I doubt Vince is going to see value in singing a non draw long term just to keep he away from the comp if he has to provide medical and pay them a union negotiated wage.



I know it’s old now but I think LU’s scripted back stage stuff was at least 10x better than anything the E has done back stage in my memory.



____________________
"Beginning this week, Nitro is going head-to-head with Thunder in Australia" - The Wrestling Observer Newsletter: January 22, 2001
Back To Top PM Quote Reply  

 Posted: Sun Nov 29th, 2020 01:55 am
  PM Quote Reply
12th Post
freebirdsforever2019



Joined: Sat Nov 23rd, 2019
Location:  
Posts: 1197
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 
Bill Apter said that he didn't know that it was even broken.

Back To Top PM Quote Reply

 Posted: Sun Nov 29th, 2020 02:04 am
  PM Quote Reply
13th Post
Franchise
Low key big hog


Joined: Mon Oct 15th, 2007
Location: Cincy, Ohio
Posts: 5861
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 
GregOliver wrote: indikator wrote: I am a bit unsure when it comes to your point about "mystique".
I get it. Times have changed. But back then, the wrestlers weren't so desperate to be noticed, to have you listen to their podcast, to follow their socials, to buy their t-shirts, to spend even more for private sites. (And I recognize that during the pandemic, all that is amplified.)
When you can see someone all the time, they ain't that special. Same reason you have to work at a marriage, I suppose. ;-)


Not to mention all of the E original content once they bring someone in. 


I also think the vibrant non E scene pre pandemic hurt the E long term. Even if a person hadn’t seen Matt Riddle prior to NXT once they did they could easily go online and find 30 matches or highlight packages of him and get their fill before he ever makes the main roster. Personally Fish is my favorite current day wrestler but I don’t watch NXT or old ROH because I’ve already seen figuratively 1,000 of his matches so it really isn’t special to me. I think the E needs to bring more people directly to Raw or Smackdown and let them sink or swim without the extra polish NXT may provide. 



____________________
"Beginning this week, Nitro is going head-to-head with Thunder in Australia" - The Wrestling Observer Newsletter: January 22, 2001
Back To Top PM Quote Reply  

 Posted: Sun Nov 29th, 2020 02:27 am
  PM Quote Reply
14th Post
GregOliver

 

Joined: Fri Aug 22nd, 2008
Location: Toronto, Ontario Canada
Posts: 488
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 
Franchise wrote:
Not to mention all of the E original content

You just need to stop there. Who has time to listen to their in-house podcasts, the original shows on the Network, the 24/7 title changes on Twitter or YouTube? 
It's oversaturation to the worst degree. 



____________________
goliver845@gmail.com
Producer, https://SlamWrestling.net
Author, http://www.OliverBooks.ca
Back To Top PM Quote Reply

 Posted: Sun Nov 29th, 2020 04:31 am
  PM Quote Reply
15th Post
srossi
HALL OF FAMER
 

Joined: Sun Oct 14th, 2007
Location: New York USA
Posts: 61522
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 
Franchise wrote: GregOliver wrote: indikator wrote: I am a bit unsure when it comes to your point about "mystique".
I get it. Times have changed. But back then, the wrestlers weren't so desperate to be noticed, to have you listen to their podcast, to follow their socials, to buy their t-shirts, to spend even more for private sites. (And I recognize that during the pandemic, all that is amplified.)
When you can see someone all the time, they ain't that special. Same reason you have to work at a marriage, I suppose. ;-)


Not to mention all of the E original content once they bring someone in. 


I also think the vibrant non E scene pre pandemic hurt the E long term. Even if a person hadn’t seen Matt Riddle prior to NXT once they did they could easily go online and find 30 matches or highlight packages of him and get their fill before he ever makes the main roster. Personally Fish is my favorite current day wrestler but I don’t watch NXT or old ROH because I’ve already seen figuratively 1,000 of his matches so it really isn’t special to me. I think the E needs to bring more people directly to Raw or Smackdown and let them sink or swim without the extra polish NXT may provide.

You completely misunderstand what WWE is doing.  They aren't looking to give anyone extra polish.  Most of these guys are plenty polished.  They're looking to deconstruct them and teach them the WWE way, which is dumbing down their offense.  They claim they're teaching them TV, which is fair enough for some of them, but most have gone through NJPW which has amazing production so this standard line that HHH likes to use to make indy guys look inadequate ("They don't even know what a hard cam is!") is mostly bullshit. 

The funny thing is, until NXT went to USA, I really loved NXT style.  I might have liked it even more than NJPW or ROH.  There was a certain cadence to their big matches, especially tag matches, that was just flat-out awesome.  It was basically a mix of the best of ROH and the best of 1980's NWA.  The saves, the hot tags, the psychology, the big spots mixed with doing the little things right, it was all clicking. Everyone was killing it.  Even the Authors of Pain were having great matches using this style.  And guys that actually had talent like The Revival, Jason Jordan and Chad Gable, and Johnny Gargano and Tomasso Ciampa were just having 5 star classics every time out.  I don't know excactly who was responsible for putting together these matches this way, but it was amazing.  Then of course they get called up to WWE and it's all forgotten.  And once NXT went to USA and Vince realized it existed, NXT style ceased to exist.  Now it's like everything else, plenty of good wrestling mixed with plenty of crap, but nothing sticks out for the right reasons.     

Last edited on Sun Nov 29th, 2020 04:34 am by srossi



____________________
This thread was great before AA ruined it.
Back To Top PM Quote Reply  

Current time is 02:47 pm Page:    1  2  Next Page Last Page    
WowBB Forums > Sports And Wrestling > Pro Wrestling > Can wrestling be "fixed"? Top




UltraBB 1.172 Copyright © 2007-2013 Data 1 Systems