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 Posted: Tue Nov 15th, 2022 05:23 pm
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LarrySC



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Is it just me, or has wrestling been blurring the lines between being a fac or a heel?  So many angles have faces acting like heels but not turning and heels "heeling" on other heels.

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 Posted: Tue Nov 15th, 2022 05:28 pm
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Jim_Irish

 

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Yes, at times to the point of nonsense. I'm talking AEW, I'm not sure how bad it is in WWE as I barely watch it.

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 Posted: Tue Nov 15th, 2022 05:28 pm
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Superstar
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LarrySC wrote: Is it just me, or has wrestling been blurring the lines between being a fac or a heel?  So many angles have faces acting like heels but not turning and heels "heeling" on other heels.And nobody does anything about it.  I mean, isn't Nyla Rose feuding with Jade Cargill?  I don't remember either of them ever being a face in their entire time in AEW.  Blurring the lines between heels and faces has been done for years but right now it seems like it's happening every single week on all the shows that I've watched.



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 Posted: Tue Nov 15th, 2022 06:54 pm
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srossi

 

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Jim_Irish wrote: Yes, at times to the point of nonsense. I'm talking AEW, I'm not sure how bad it is in WWE as I barely watch it.
WWE has gotten MUCH worse at this just the past 2 weeks alone. 



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 Posted: Tue Nov 15th, 2022 06:54 pm
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One Fan Gang



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The world is a human resources director; nobody gives a shit about tactics between the bell now,  and never really did.   Personalities drive the ticket sales and booking has stopped trying to orchestrate everything all the time.  I don't think Athena, for example, was planning to heel but one match gave her a bad rep, and she's now riffing on the premise, having fun with it and giving cynical fans something organic to react to.

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 Posted: Tue Nov 15th, 2022 08:42 pm
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Superstar
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One Fan Gang wrote:

The world is a human resources director; nobody gives a shit about tactics between the bell now,  and never really did.   Personalities drive the ticket sales and booking has stopped trying to orchestrate everything all the time.  I don't think Athena, for example, was planning to heel but one match gave her a bad rep, and she's now riffing on the premise, having fun with it and giving cynical fans something organic to react to.
Is Athena the one that used to be Ember Moo?



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 Posted: Tue Nov 15th, 2022 08:43 pm
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Boz1515



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srossi wrote: Jim_Irish wrote: Yes, at times to the point of nonsense. I'm talking AEW, I'm not sure how bad it is in WWE as I barely watch it.
WWE has gotten MUCH worse at this just the past 2 weeks alone. 


Yep.  Just off the top of my head:
 
Seth Rollins
Bobby Lashley
A.J. Styles
Roman Reigns (during the Sami segments)
Dexter Lumis
Austin Theory (just last night sort of)
The fan that attacked heel Scarlett
Bray Wyatt

Last edited on Tue Nov 15th, 2022 08:47 pm by Boz1515

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 Posted: Tue Nov 15th, 2022 09:46 pm
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Jim_Irish

 

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Fair enough, not surprised either. I don't like it much.

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 Posted: Tue Nov 15th, 2022 10:18 pm
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One Fan Gang



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Superstar wrote: One Fan Gang wrote:

The world is a human resources director; nobody gives a shit about tactics between the bell now,  and never really did.   Personalities drive the ticket sales and booking has stopped trying to orchestrate everything all the time.  I don't think Athena, for example, was planning to heel but one match gave her a bad rep, and she's now riffing on the premise, having fun with it and giving cynical fans something organic to react to.
Is Athena the one that used to be Ember Moo?


Right.  She works on the YouTube shows essentially flipping out in squash bouts after she gets shown up in various points.  It gets over there, and it might result in her getting Wednesday and Friday spots against a higher level opponent.  

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 Posted: Tue Nov 15th, 2022 11:55 pm
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srossi

 

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One Fan Gang wrote: Superstar wrote: One Fan Gang wrote:

The world is a human resources director; nobody gives a shit about tactics between the bell now,  and never really did.   Personalities drive the ticket sales and booking has stopped trying to orchestrate everything all the time.  I don't think Athena, for example, was planning to heel but one match gave her a bad rep, and she's now riffing on the premise, having fun with it and giving cynical fans something organic to react to.
Is Athena the one that used to be Ember Moo?


Right.  She works on the YouTube shows essentially flipping out in squash bouts after she gets shown up in various points.  It gets over there, and it might result in her getting Wednesday and Friday spots against a higher level opponent.  

That’s a very indy mindset and I don’t blame her for it, but again this is where Tony Khan needs to step in and be a leader. If you want her to be a face, then she needs to be a face. 



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 Posted: Wed Nov 16th, 2022 04:29 am
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Jim_Irish

 

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srossi wrote: One Fan Gang wrote: Superstar wrote: One Fan Gang wrote:

The world is a human resources director; nobody gives a shit about tactics between the bell now,  and never really did.   Personalities drive the ticket sales and booking has stopped trying to orchestrate everything all the time.  I don't think Athena, for example, was planning to heel but one match gave her a bad rep, and she's now riffing on the premise, having fun with it and giving cynical fans something organic to react to.
Is Athena the one that used to be Ember Moo?


Right.  She works on the YouTube shows essentially flipping out in squash bouts after she gets shown up in various points.  It gets over there, and it might result in her getting Wednesday and Friday spots against a higher level opponent.  

That’s a very indy mindset and I don’t blame her for it, but again this is where Tony Khan needs to step in and be a leader. If you want her to be a face, then she needs to be a face. 
Exactly, it is a stupid way to run (or not run) things. I think at this stage Tony has shown that he's not a leader. I don't think he has it in him.
(The women's division is a mess for the most part too.) 

Last edited on Wed Nov 16th, 2022 04:35 am by Jim_Irish

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 Posted: Wed Nov 16th, 2022 08:12 am
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Kriss
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Athena is full heel in AEW now, it's not a case of her being booked one way and acting another. After that one match in Canada, where she possibly made a choice to work heel due to the decent face reaction her opponent got, she has been booked as a heel. The wing apparatus is gone and the announcers are playing up that she is the "fallen goddess."



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 Posted: Wed Nov 16th, 2022 01:51 pm
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srossi

 

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Kriss wrote: Athena is full heel in AEW now, it's not a case of her being booked one way and acting another. After that one match in Canada, where she possibly made a choice to work heel due to the decent face reaction her opponent got, she has been booked as a heel. The wing apparatus is gone and the announcers are playing up that she is the "fallen goddess."
I saw they were promoting her heel turn on social media yesterday ahead of her Dark match.  Here's the problem.  95% of AEW fans don't even remember that Athena is with the company still.  She made her debut and then basically went straight to Dark.  It's an issue with two dozen other talents.  They have their flagship Dynamite, they basically use Rampage for ROH and Hook (which mostly comprises their pushed mid-card when it should be separate), and then there's the black void of YouTube shows that basically aren't really happening but Excalibur will refer to them sometimes.  The company has major structural issues they have to address.  They really need Rampage to be expanded to 2 hours and they have to mix their mid-card and main event stuff throughout both shows better.  They need a dedicated hour for ROH, and if they can't get a TV deal (which they've been trying to for a long time and isn't happening), then I see no reason why they can't put that on YouTube and also make a deal with Fite TV like the old ROH had.  FTR and a couple of other talents can cross-over between brands, but most of the rosters should be dedicated.  And then they can use Dark and Elevation as their developmental, but if anyone is called up to the main shows after that they have to explain very carefully, with video footage, what they've been doing because no one fucking knows or cares.  Right now, the fundamental structure of AEW is broken and getting ROH has hurt more than helped.



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 Posted: Wed Nov 16th, 2022 08:25 pm
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Jim_Irish

 

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Agree 100%. The Ring of Honor stuff on AEW has been a clusterfuck from day 1 and it's not getting any better. It's diluting the AEW product /brand whatever you want to call it. And that company is only, what, 3 years old.

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 Posted: Thu Nov 17th, 2022 07:22 pm
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One Fan Gang



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Kriss wrote: Athena is full heel in AEW now, it's not a case of her being booked one way and acting another. After that one match in Canada, where she possibly made a choice to work heel due to the decent face reaction her opponent got, she has been booked as a heel. The wing apparatus is gone and the announcers are playing up that she is the "fallen goddess."


One point I have been meaning to make is the low-rent quality of things like Athena's wings or any ring jacket being discarded on the ramp and it stays there for the duration of a match.  It gets seen as a carelessness from the individuals for their personal property, and a fail by the company for not having someone dedicated to maintaining it for them.   

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