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Roe v. Wade  Rate Topic 
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 Posted: Thu May 5th, 2022 04:13 pm
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Big Garea Fan
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It has been nearly 50 years since the original ruling in the Roe v. Wade case. However, it seems like it has been a hot button topic for every election since and many people still  passionately protest on both sides of the issue. The Supreme Court has voted to strike down the original decision. It is still being decided what the actual fallout from this will be.

A couple of questions / comments:

1) Doesn't the Supreme Court have better things to do than review this 50 year-old case? Hasn't this case gone before the Supreme Court many times before?

2) Do you care about Roe v. Wade and the Supreme Court's latest decision?

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 Posted: Thu May 5th, 2022 04:23 pm
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brodiescomics



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Not actually officially voted on yet. There was a leaked document. Which is quite concerning in and of itself.



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 Posted: Thu May 5th, 2022 04:34 pm
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srossi
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brodiescomics wrote: Not actually officially voted on yet. There was a leaked document. Which is quite concerning in and of itself.

The leak is indeed the most concerning thing about this situation, with the rumor being it's either 1) an internal liberal outraged by the decision who hopes this leak causes public pressure  or 2) an internal conservative outraged that the initial first draft was softened or reversed in later drafts and hopes this leak causes public pressure.  Either way, this person is trying to subvert the legal process of the highest court in the land and should spend the rest of his or her life in jail.  This is far more damaging and immediate to our country than anything Edward Snowden or Chelsea Manning leaked.

As for the actual case, a reversal would be less dramatic than many liberals make it out to be, although still quite bad.  It amazes me how many people really think Roe vs. Wade is about whether abortion is legal or illegal in broad terms.  A reversal will simply say that abortion isn't a constitutional right and revert power back to the states.  Most states will continue to have legal abortion, but it will be in danger in about 15 other states.  This obviously will cause the same economic divide as everything else.  If you have the time, money, and mental capacity to travel out of state, you can get an abortion as easily as ever before.  If you don't, it's going to lead to the least capable people making the absolute worst decisions that will directly result in accidental death of mother, intentional death of baby, abandonment, unwanted children in the poorest households, and economic catastrophe in places like Mississippi that already are complete and total welfare states.  



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 Posted: Thu May 5th, 2022 04:39 pm
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brodiescomics wrote: Not actually officially voted on yet. There was a leaked document. Which is quite concerning in and of itself.
Weird that not once did President Biden (in a pretty bizarre little speech) mention anything about the leak. Instead he babbled that the next law could be that LGBTQI+WHATEVER children are not allowed play with other children.
Seriously, the fact that this is leaked should be a real concern. It's barely a footnote in anything I've read (and the story is HUGE over here). 

Last edited on Thu May 5th, 2022 04:41 pm by Jim_Irish

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 Posted: Thu May 5th, 2022 07:07 pm
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As for revisiting cases that are >50 years old, the obvious counter to that -- from a historical basis at least -- is Brown v. Topeka Board of Education (1954), which essentially overturned Plessey v. Ferguson (1896).  As an aside, I have a book on the development of the Supreme Court and Constitutional law that was written in the 1940s.  In today's mythology we're told that Plessey v. Ferguson was a landmark decision and one of the darkest days of the Supreme Court.  Yet in this massive book of mine, it's mentioned once...in a footnote.  It seems that prior to the Civil Rights movement, the case didn't have quite the bellwether status it's now been assigned.

As for Roe v. Wade.  Like srossi said, in many parts of the country it won't matter at all.  Personally, I find the practice of abortion to be barbaric.  It's not something that civilized societies should countenance.  But I'm almost surprised as how little this whole kerfuffle has bothered me.  A few years ago I would have groped around for the properly aggrieved stance, probably surrounding the cunt clerk who leaked Alito's written opinion.  Today, it's just another example of how beyond repair our nation is.  The reckoning will come at some point and this is just another soon-to-be-forgotten waystation on the road to that end.  

Last edited on Thu May 5th, 2022 07:09 pm by KGB



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 Posted: Thu May 5th, 2022 11:46 pm
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I'm going to finance a series of clinics to be built in bordering Mexican towns and create "Abortion Tourism" Come and enjoy a Margarita Poolside after you take some abortifacient.
Don't really seeing it make much change to how things are currently. Most of the red states have already set tight limits on abortions over the last few years. Shouldn't be any change up north. If I go and get a mistress knocked up, I'd just take her to Canada anyways and get it done or order the Morning after Pill on Amazon, 1 day delivery.

Last edited on Fri May 6th, 2022 12:04 am by Principal_Raditch

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 Posted: Mon May 9th, 2022 09:54 pm
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KGB wrote: As for revisiting cases that are >50 years old, the obvious counter to that -- from a historical basis at least -- is Brown v. Topeka Board of Education (1954), which essentially overturned Plessey v. Ferguson (1896). Normally cases which get overturned after a long period are after courts (especially lower courts) are hinting strongly that the old law is too strict and too undemocratic.  It's remarkable that a court might go the opposite way.
Then again the US Supreme Court is unfit for purpose.  Politicians should not be picking judges.  And having judges appointed for life is straight from the USSR.



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 Posted: Tue May 10th, 2022 01:46 pm
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KGB

 

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kargol wrote: KGB wrote: As for revisiting cases that are >50 years old, the obvious counter to that -- from a historical basis at least -- is Brown v. Topeka Board of Education (1954), which essentially overturned Plessey v. Ferguson (1896). Normally cases which get overturned after a long period are after courts (especially lower courts) are hinting strongly that the old law is too strict and too undemocratic.  It's remarkable that a court might go the opposite way.
Then again the US Supreme Court is unfit for purpose.  Politicians should not be picking judges.  And having judges appointed for life is straight from the USSR.


I assume you understand the rationale our Founders had for giving the justices lifetime appointments.  Primarily it was to keep them free from political intrigue.  Whether that's been truly effective is a matter for debate but there's a sound, decidedly non-Communist reason for it.  Personally I'd like to see their terms limited in some sense, whether it's giving them a specific term of years or mandating retirement at a certain age, but I suspect even that wouldn't make much difference in the end.

As for this decision being remarkable because it's reverting to a "strict" or "undemocratic" prior standard, nothing could be further from the truth.  The original Roe v. Wade decision was a classic case of the Court just inventing shit out of whole cloth, much as John Roberts did when he said Obamacare was legal because it could be interpreted as a tax or when John Gorsuch decided that somewhere in the Civil Rights Act of 1964 was an unwritten protection for cross-dressers.  The right to privacy, on which the Roe decision was founded, is nowhere in the Constitution.  They just made it up.  On the other hand, the 10th Amendment very specifically says that matters such as abortion should be left to the States.  If this leaked decision does come to pass, control over the rules governing abortion will revert, rightfully, to the many States, which is a more democratic method of deciding the issue.   



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 Posted: Tue May 10th, 2022 07:14 pm
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KGB wrote:
I assume you understand the rationale our Founders had for giving the justices lifetime appointments.  Primarily it was to keep them free from political intrigue.  Which can be done by limiting terms to (say) 15 years or retirement at 65/70.  Judgeitis is a serious condition; it's where judges get so convinced of their own judicial superiority that they forget what is in front of them.  Also judges get remote from practice because of long tenure on the bench. 

But free of political intrigue?  They are political appointments.  Which is mental.



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 Posted: Tue May 10th, 2022 10:35 pm
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kargol wrote: KGB wrote:
I assume you understand the rationale our Founders had for giving the justices lifetime appointments.  Primarily it was to keep them free from political intrigue.  Which can be done by limiting terms to (say) 15 years or retirement at 65/70.  Judgeitis is a serious condition; it's where judges get so convinced of their own judicial superiority that they forget what is in front of them.  Also judges get remote from practice because of long tenure on the bench. 

But free of political intrigue?  They are political appointments.  Which is mental.


Yes, but in theory -- and often in practice, to be fair -- they have to be confirmed by members of the opposing party.  And without having to worry about preserving their seat on the high court, they can free themselves from tailoring their decisions to the king makers' wishes.  Again, it's something that only works when you have men with the integrity of a Washington, but I'm not sure there's a superior option.  



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 Posted: Tue May 10th, 2022 11:21 pm
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Way I see things is like this.
If a 15 year old girl wanted to adopt a baby she would be laughed at and told NO! by everybody with an ounce if sense.
So why is it okay if she gets knocked up by her 17 year old boyfriend to force her to give birth?
If a woman gets raped, nobody in their right mind would agree with forcing her to have the child.
So then how can they bitch about the sanctity of life, if this baby is aborted.
Not the babies fault how he was concieved.
People are a bunch of god damn hypocrites, an abortion should be a womans choice and nobody else's business.



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 Posted: Fri Jun 24th, 2022 02:59 pm
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Roe officially overturned now. Wow, I really never thought I’d see the day.



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 Posted: Fri Jun 24th, 2022 03:14 pm
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Somebody correct me if my take is wrong
All the state laws being passed were within the context of Roe v. Wade. conservative states were banning abortion at 13 weeks. First trimester. Quite honestly, I think abortion for convenience after that time frame is problematic. Anyway, why challenge those laws with this supreme court? At the very least Roe is still law if you don't. Now you gave them a chance to overturn it and they did.

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 Posted: Fri Jun 24th, 2022 03:43 pm
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srossi wrote: Roe officially overturned now. Wow, I really never thought I’d see the day.

You pretty much live in a religious theocracy in the US now. Religion rules the law almost as much as places like Iran and Saudi Arabia. Even the heathen New England states are far more religious than most parts of Western Europe. People talk about the US President being the most powerful man in the world. Can't even do squat in his own country.



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 Posted: Fri Jun 24th, 2022 03:49 pm
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If any of my side pieces need to get coathangered now, I'll just take them up to Toronto.

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