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 Posted: Wed Oct 6th, 2010 07:45 pm
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kargol



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Heretic wrote: This is profoundly stupid.  Even accepting the legitimacy of the "let it burn because he didn't pay up" argument, what about the neighbors who did pay?  Letting the house burn puts the neighbors who did pay at risk.   


They did put out the fire at the neighbours' house when it caught alight.

Hey, if they didn't think it worth paying $75 to protect their home, they got what they paid for.  Evidently they thought they could do without the fire service, so they got no fire service.  Seems fair enough.



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 Posted: Wed Oct 6th, 2010 09:15 pm
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kargol



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Let's put it this way.

If the fire service had put the fire out, who would have paid the $75 the next year?

Meaning that they might never have had equipment for future fires.

Chap had already had a fire, that was a warning, for 20 cents per day he could have had fire protection.  He made his bed.



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 Posted: Thu Oct 7th, 2010 01:34 am
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Hammer to Fall



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sek69 wrote:
To extend the Libertarian fantasy land even further, how could you make an informed choice on where to live without knowing if your neighbors paid their fire department tab or not? You can't have anyone from the government ask, and if you go over there yourself you run the risk of having one of their sainted firearms pointed in your face.


Correct.

I mostly grew up out in the middle of nowhere. It's a bit of a weird spot as the town fire department is six miles away. The volunteer fire department is about 10. It's a spread out county (and a mostly deserted hellhole, but that's beside the point).

I'm not sure if there is any fire department fee. If there is, it's included with property tax.

It would be pretty difficult to compose a list of who's paid and who hasn't. Mainly because there are some ambiguous properties out there, including a trailer park, houses on rented properties, and large expanses of woods. Farmland can be a patchwork as inherited property can get a little wonky as to what's located where.

To make it even harder, some clown back in the day decided to make property lines difficult. My grandfather, who was in another county, had his line determined "by run of the creek." He was threatened with legal action in later years when he decided to have timber cut. The neighbor said he was on his property. "By run of the creek" meant diddly squat. The creek had changed positions several times. Nobody was quite sure what the property line was.

Even if you did have a list of who paid and who hadn't, just how much control do you have over it? Suppose your neighbor moves and a cheapskate moves in. You shouldn't be potentially punished for that.

It is a risk you take by living in an area with volunteer fire departments - having seen two bad fires, I'm well aware the risks involved with relying on a bunch of country boys coming from far-flung family farms to a 1950s fire truck in an area with no water pressure. That part's an understandable risk. Having to rely on your neighbor's checkbook to be part of your security system isn't.

I just can't see letting someone's property burn. He may have gamed the system, but it's someone's house and property. Sometimes you just have to get gamed. It'd be a problem if everyone gamed the system, but that's the risk you take of having it as a separate fee.



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 Posted: Thu Oct 7th, 2010 02:39 am
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Well, it is Tennessee. They do things a little " different" down there.

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 Posted: Thu Oct 7th, 2010 05:11 am
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What if there's an accounting error and he actually did pay? Just put the fucking fire out and settle things later. It's potentially a matter of life and death. It's not like he's trying to scam a round of golf without paying his membership fee.

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 Posted: Thu Oct 7th, 2010 06:25 am
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kargol



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Hammer to Fall wrote:
It would be pretty difficult to compose a list of who's paid and who hasn't.

I just can't see letting someone's property burn. He may have gamed the system, but it's someone's house and property. Sometimes you just have to get gamed. It'd be a problem if everyone gamed the system, but that's the risk you take of having it as a separate fee.

They used to have firemarks on houses over here.  Metal plaques with a serial number on them.  Home insurance companies ran their own fire services and if a house had a firemark on it with the insurance company logo they would put it out.

As for gaming the system...if they put his house out, EVERYone would game the system, and before long there would be no system.  Everyone loses.



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 Posted: Thu Oct 7th, 2010 01:41 pm
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martini
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freebirdsforever2001 wrote: Well, it is Tennessee. They do things a little " different" down there.
i looked up the state's laws regarding fire coverage and there is no right to fire protection for residents

it is this way all across the state of tn i guess



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 Posted: Thu Oct 7th, 2010 02:14 pm
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carpetbeggar
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TerryWWWF wrote: What if there's an accounting error and he actually did pay? Just put the fucking fire out and settle things later. It's potentially a matter of life and death. It's not like he's trying to scam a round of golf without paying his membership fee.
This is spot on with how I'm thinking. Sue his ass off, charge him the total cost of what it took to drive the fire trucks out there, the equipment they used etc, and bill him for it...after they put the fire out. Sue his ass if he refuses to pay it, something, anything has got to be better than letting the house burn down.

Last edited on Thu Oct 7th, 2010 02:15 pm by carpetbeggar

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 Posted: Thu Oct 7th, 2010 03:10 pm
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amerorig



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carpetbeggar wrote:
TerryWWWF wrote: What if there's an accounting error and he actually did pay? Just put the fucking fire out and settle things later. It's potentially a matter of life and death. It's not like he's trying to scam a round of golf without paying his membership fee.
This is spot on with how I'm thinking. Sue his ass off, charge him the total cost of what it took to drive the fire trucks out there, the equipment they used etc, and bill him for it...after they put the fire out. Sue his ass if he refuses to pay it, something, anything has got to be better than letting the house burn down.


On the other hand...I bet the rest of the people in that county are up to date on their fire dept fees now.

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 Posted: Thu Oct 7th, 2010 08:53 pm
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DaNkinator



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I spoke with a fireman about this and his take on it was basically...

- If it involved human life or to a lesser extent animal life, it would be reprehensible.

- However, chances are there was no chance to save the animals at this point, which means we're talking about the guy's shit, and fighting the fire would have destroyed all his shit anyway. You know how fires are fought? By dumping the equivalent of a small flood inside a structure not designed to handle it.

- For a large structure fire it is all about containing it to certain areas and in a mobile home containment might mean containing it to a single mobile home.

- His department charges for services after the fact on an if-you-can basis but city taxes cover the rest of their expenses. If this department didn't receive city taxes the fee might be the only way they can fund it.

Basically, even if they had gotten out there, there wasn't much they could have done anyway.

And he's an idiot for allowing leaves to be burned that close to his home in the first place.


Last edited on Thu Oct 7th, 2010 08:55 pm by DaNkinator

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 Posted: Thu Oct 7th, 2010 09:20 pm
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 Posted: Fri Oct 8th, 2010 01:01 am
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Married Jo wrote: "I want my 75 dollars"



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