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the squared circle



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So, did anyone watch? I liked it a lot. I think the show has a lot of potential.

Wasn't crazy about Commissioner Gordon at the beginning, but thought he was great by the end. I think Donal Logue (Harvey Bullock) is my new favourite actor. He's been fantastic in Sons of Anarchy (I just started season 6). I liked all the cameos of the villains.

 

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I knew Donald Logue would make the series as soon as I heard he was attached to it, and he does.  Been a fan since "Grounded For Life" and since then he's gone on a string of amazing dramatic work in "Sons of Anarchy", "Copper", and "Vikings".

Other than him, I'm pretty underwhelmed.  The casting of "The O.C." kid as Gordon will take time to grow on me.  He can do it, but I need to be convinced.  I thought Toby Maguire would suck as Peter Parker and I was wrong, especially when you look at who replaced him.  So he deserves a chance.

Overall, it's as dark and gritty a show as they can make on Fox, which proves once again that violence and language is not why HBO, Showtime, and even FX shows are so much better than the networks.  Network shows just have logic gaps and holes that make you want to tear your hair out.  So many things about last night's show made no sense, especially the part about how they killed the patsy who was framed so now they have to continue the cover-up.  What?!  The guy shot at them and was standing over Gordon with a blade when he was shot, if that's not a justifiable kill I don't know what is!  (Insert NYPD joke here).  Stuff like that just drives me crazy.  It's the motivation for major plot points in the series, and they just don't care enough to write anything believable.  You compare that to "The Wire" or "The Shield" or "Breaking Bad" and it's like first graders taking a graduate-level class. 

So my expectations are low but I'll stick with it.  I hate the casting of The Penguin and I hate how they just threw a bunch of random super villains with bizarre back stories all into the first episode.  We don't need EVERYONE introduced in the first 44 minutes, and none being given the time to be introduced correctly.  This isn't a movie.  But this is the way network TV operates, and they've never gotten it right after all these years of being lapped by cable. 

Last edited on Tue Sep 23rd, 2014 05:46 pm by srossi

the squared circle



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Good points.
I was thinking they didnt show the Joker, then a colleague said to me, 'wasnt that him doing the stand up comedy?' - makes sense. That could have been him.
Wasnt crazy about Jada Pinkett, but I was never a big fan of hers, so my view there is slanted.
I liked the penguin character, and I thought that ending sequence with him and Gordon at the dock, and the result, was done well.
Supposedly next weeks episode will focus on Catwoman, or Catgirl, since she is so young.

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the squared circle wrote: Good points.
I was thinking they didnt show the Joker, then a colleague said to me, 'wasnt that him doing the stand up comedy?' - makes sense. That could have been him.

Ugh, didn't even think about that.  I sure hope not!  But now I'm thinking your colleague might be right. 

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I like the actor who is playing the Penguin

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Count Grog wrote: I like the actor who is playing the Penguin

I am watching it now...I think the actor who is playing the Penguin is great along with the Riddler

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Just watched and while I enjoyed it I'm not yet as hooked as I was after recently starting to watch episodes of Arrow.


Maybe it is the familiarity of the topic as I have been collecting comics off and on for 40 years or so and Batman is one of my favorites while I am less familiar with the Green Arrow canon.  This leads me to see Arrow as something fresher in my view.

Other than Donal Logue who is one of my favorites not overly familiar with any of the cast outside of Richard Kind(the mayor) AND Jada Pinkett Smith who I'm not really a big fan of other than to have her on her back with the heels of her feet aimed at the ceiling.

I do think the the shots of catgirl were unnecessary and could have been used at the beginning of the next episode if that episode is indeed to focus on her.  Don't mind the character of the Penguin although I think some of our expectations for the villain characters may be tainted by their portrayal in the original TV series that in my mind though campy as it was had some of the greatest character actors playing villains.


The actor who plays Commissioner Gordon seems like a dead ringer for Russell Crowe but I am unfamiliar with him for thankfully never having watched the O.C.  Slow start but shows promise.  Hopefully the network doesn't get an itchy trigger finger and yanks this before it has time to flesh itself out a little and get a following if it doesn't already have one.

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Its foxs they seem to give shows more of a chance.

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TVbythenumbers.com

Gotham opened to strong ratings last night with a 3.2 adults 18-49 rating and 8 million viewer.


I like the show..Going to be interesting going forward. 

Last edited on Tue Sep 23rd, 2014 07:27 pm by bpickering

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I thought The Wayne's murder was a little rushed at the beginning as we really didn't know a whole lot about them or the importance of their influence on the city. Maybe it'll be revealed more as the show progresses.

The best part about last night was The Penguin. Nice origin story of him starting out as a low-level thug. Riddler cameo was nice too. The Rogues are the obvious stars of the show here. Can't wait for Hugo Strange.

The cops all seem kinda bland. Bullock and Gordon need to be fleshed-out more with Gordon unable to really do anything about the crime and corruption as the city gets worse. I'm betting-on Barbara and Montoya previously having a relationship, which may play into a blackmail storyline.

Young Bruce and Alfred are decent. Hopefully we see Bruce learning various skills along the way as Alfred softens-up.

The Joker tease was good too. Not a bad show. But maybe focus on less characters rather than jam too many in on one episode.

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One more little nitpick, but another lapse in logic.  The Wayne parents were always described as being killed on the way back from "the theatre".  Now I understand TV writers aren't the brightest, but I think that's largely always been assumed to be "the theatre" in the sense that Abraham Lincoln was assassinated at the theatre.  You know, given that they were dressed up in the "theatre district" and the mother was wearing the pearls and all.  On Gotham, they were coming out of a...movie theater.  Stuff like that is just so stupid, even if it makes no difference, that it really makes you appreciate the subtle brilliance and excellent writing of a show like "Breaking Bad" in comparison.  The fucking movie theater?  Show some pride and common sense in your work if you want millions of people to watch something!  Don't sully the memory of Thomas Wayne by making it seem like the last thing he did on this planet was watch "Dumb and Dumber To".  It's so simple to look through the first draft and just be like, "Whoa, that's silly, let's fix that word." 

Last edited on Tue Sep 23rd, 2014 09:47 pm by srossi

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srossi wrote: One more little nitpick, but another lapse in logic.  The Wayne parents were always described as being killed on the way back from "the theatre".  Now I understand TV writers aren't the brightest, but I think that's largely always been assumed to be "the theatre" in the sense that Abraham Lincoln was assassinated at the theatre.  You know, given that they were dressed up in the "theatre district" and the mother was wearing the pearls and all.  On Gotham, they were coming out of a...movie theater.  Stuff like that is just so stupid, even if it makes no difference, that it really makes you appreciate the subtle brilliance and excellent writing of a show like "Breaking Bad" in comparison.  The fucking movie theater?  Show some pride and common sense in your work if you want millions of people to watch something!  Don't sully the memory of Thomas Wayne by making it seem like the last thing he did on this planet was watch "Dumb and Dumber To".  It's so simple to look through the first draft and just be like, "Whoa, that's silly, let's fix that word." 
Not the first time Waynes were coming out of a movie theater. Early stories in the comics say it was a Movie theater. If I remember in batman 89 they care coming out of a movie theater. So they are honoring the story. (It was a Zorro movie)

Batman Begins uses a theater watching a Opera.

Last edited on Tue Sep 23rd, 2014 10:10 pm by bpickering

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The movie theater has been standard for some time.  Typically, they were seeing Zorro.  

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bpickering wrote: srossi wrote: One more little nitpick, but another lapse in logic.  The Wayne parents were always described as being killed on the way back from "the theatre".  Now I understand TV writers aren't the brightest, but I think that's largely always been assumed to be "the theatre" in the sense that Abraham Lincoln was assassinated at the theatre.  You know, given that they were dressed up in the "theatre district" and the mother was wearing the pearls and all.  On Gotham, they were coming out of a...movie theater.  Stuff like that is just so stupid, even if it makes no difference, that it really makes you appreciate the subtle brilliance and excellent writing of a show like "Breaking Bad" in comparison.  The fucking movie theater?  Show some pride and common sense in your work if you want millions of people to watch something!  Don't sully the memory of Thomas Wayne by making it seem like the last thing he did on this planet was watch "Dumb and Dumber To".  It's so simple to look through the first draft and just be like, "Whoa, that's silly, let's fix that word." 
Not the first time Waynes were coming out of a movie theater. Early stories in the comics say it was a Movie theater. If I remember in batman 89 they care coming out of a movie theater. So they are honoring the story. (It was a Zorro movie)

Batman Begins uses a theater watching a Opera.

The earliest versions of the story seem to assume a play, although an opera works just fine.  The movie theater thing just makes no sense given the back-drop, although I know the Zorro thing has been around for a while.

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srossi wrote: bpickering wrote: srossi wrote: One more little nitpick, but another lapse in logic.  The Wayne parents were always described as being killed on the way back from "the theatre".  Now I understand TV writers aren't the brightest, but I think that's largely always been assumed to be "the theatre" in the sense that Abraham Lincoln was assassinated at the theatre.  You know, given that they were dressed up in the "theatre district" and the mother was wearing the pearls and all.  On Gotham, they were coming out of a...movie theater.  Stuff like that is just so stupid, even if it makes no difference, that it really makes you appreciate the subtle brilliance and excellent writing of a show like "Breaking Bad" in comparison.  The fucking movie theater?  Show some pride and common sense in your work if you want millions of people to watch something!  Don't sully the memory of Thomas Wayne by making it seem like the last thing he did on this planet was watch "Dumb and Dumber To".  It's so simple to look through the first draft and just be like, "Whoa, that's silly, let's fix that word." 
Not the first time Waynes were coming out of a movie theater. Early stories in the comics say it was a Movie theater. If I remember in batman 89 they care coming out of a movie theater. So they are honoring the story. (It was a Zorro movie)

Batman Begins uses a theater watching a Opera.

The earliest versions of the story seem to assume a play, although an opera works just fine.  The movie theater thing just makes no sense given the back-drop, although I know the Zorro thing has been around for a while.

Detective comics #33 first telling of the story

http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Detective_Comics_Vol_1_33

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I've always wondered about the "theatre", "theater" thing.  Why is a a rich dude like Wayne walking out of a movie and down an alley?  To get to their car?  Where's Alfred that lazy fuck?  Why wasn't he picking them up out front.  Gotham is an apparent hell hole of a city and the Wayne's are strolling down an alley in the middle of the night.


And why all dressed up if it's for a regular movie?  To show Gotham that snobbery isn't dead.  Damn if I was that rich I would have just ordered a private showing of the movie in my drawing room or better yet have the entire fucking cast act it out live on my grounds. 

Regardless, I enjoyed it and will continue to watch until it becomes unwatcheable.  Hopefully that doesn't happen. 

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srossi wrote: I knew Donald Logue would make the series as soon as I heard he was attached to it, and he does.  Been a fan since "Grounded For Life" and since then he's gone on a string of amazing dramatic work in "Sons of Anarchy", "Copper", and "Vikings".

Other than him, I'm pretty underwhelmed.  The casting of "The O.C." kid as Gordon will take time to grow on me.  He can do it, but I need to be convinced.  I thought Toby Maguire would suck as Peter Parker and I was wrong, especially when you look at who replaced him.  So he deserves a chance.

Overall, it's as dark and gritty a show as they can make on Fox, which proves once again that violence and language is not why HBO, Showtime, and even FX shows are so much better than the networks.  Network shows just have logic gaps and holes that make you want to tear your hair out.  So many things about last night's show made no sense, especially the part about how they killed the patsy who was framed so now they have to continue the cover-up.  What?!  The guy shot at them and was standing over Gordon with a blade when he was shot, if that's not a justifiable kill I don't know what is!  (Insert NYPD joke here).  Stuff like that just drives me crazy.  It's the motivation for major plot points in the series, and they just don't care enough to write anything believable.  You compare that to "The Wire" or "The Shield" or "Breaking Bad" and it's like first graders taking a graduate-level class. 

So my expectations are low but I'll stick with it.  I hate the casting of The Penguin and I hate how they just threw a bunch of random super villains with bizarre back stories all into the first episode.  We don't need EVERYONE introduced in the first 44 minutes, and none being given the time to be introduced correctly.  This isn't a movie.  But this is the way network TV operates, and they've never gotten it right after all these years of being lapped by cable. 
this was my big complaint, even though I like the first 2 episodes.
Poison Ivy, Riddler, Penguin, Joker, Catwoman...any others get introd in episode 1?

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So far, so very good.

I have no previous connection to the actor that's playing Gordon, so for me, I really like what he brings to the character.   And like rossi said, Donald Logue is a fantastic actor and owns any scene he's in.

The biggest surprise for me has been Jada Pinket.  For me, she's been outstanding in her role.  Ruthless and cold, but with just enough vulnerability that you can see she has deeper layers.

I also like the way Alfred is being played.  Seems he's overwhelmed and easily lashes out, but has a deep love and respect for Bruce.

Penguin has been very very solid and entertaining.

And although I have read many of the graphic novels, I'm not clued into every single little detail and thus it makes the story and how it plays out, more enjoyable for me.

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I've noticed that Gotham is aired again on Friday nights so I'll watch it then since Mondays are so crowded.  But I've heard mostly positive things about episode 2.  Don't worry, I won't complain about spoilers.  :)

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Just finished up the first 6-7 episodes. Wow. How great is the Penguin? That guy is hitting it out of the park. Also love the Riddler. The face he makes every time someone belittles him is classic. Perfect build for the origin of a super villian. I am not convinced that the comedian was intended to be a young Joker, but we will see.

Honestly, I cannot think of one character I don't like. Tremendous show.

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I was skeptical that the show could live up to the hype but it keeps getting better with every episode, with seemingly almost perfect casting of every character.  I wasn't originally in Jada Pinkett Smith but now when she's doing dialogue I just look at her body and suddenly she's a better actress.

Oh to be young and in high school again.  Camren Bicondova is going to be tearing guys hearts out and eating them whole if she isn't already and those eyes!

I spent part of the summer watching Arrow and I've watched some of Marvel:Agents of Shield and am up to date on The Flash and Constantine and I think Gotham has edged to the head of the pack in terms of which one I like the best at this point.

With all the shows worth watching mentioned in other threads that I haven't seen any of yet I'm going to have to hire a stunt double to watch what I can't or I'll never be able to see everything.

For anyone who knows or keeps track, what are the ratings like so far for Gotham, The Flash, Arrow, et al?   

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I thought the Harvey Dent character was terrible. Looks like he is psychotic, which i dont believe he was, until he became Two Face.
I like Gordon and Logue, and Alfred is growing on me. Didnt like him the first few episodes.
Love Carol Kanes' cameos.
Also like Maroni and Falcone. But I always see them as their characters from Oz and the Wire lol.
I also think Bruce is great - not a fan of young Catwoman, though as AA said, she will be a heartbreaker when she is older. She looks so much like Michelle Pfeiffer too.
I think the only characters I truly dont like, are Barbara (total waste - though I understand her role in the story) and the two useless cops who tried to arrest Gordon.
And its twice now that my son sees women making out on the show, and has a confused look on his face lol.
Oh, Victor Zsasz was really good.
Lots of cheesy dialogue and scenes, but overall I am really enjoying it.

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the squared circle wrote: Also like Maroni and Falcone. But I always see them as their characters from Oz and the Wire lol.

I know Maroni from Dexter.  He was in Oz or The Wire?

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Maroni was in Oz - played a Spanish hood. Actually, Falcone was also in OZ, and now that I am thinking about it, I think Maroni was the one who killed him!
Falcone was the former Army General or something, and I think Maroni killed him in the elevator shaft.

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the squared circle wrote: Maroni was in Oz - played a Spanish hood. Actually, Falcone was also in OZ, and now that I am thinking about it, I think Maroni was the one who killed him!
Falcone was the former Army General or something, and I think Maroni killed him in the elevator shaft.

Vaguely remember that now.  Been a while since I've seen Oz.

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Watched Monday's episode.

Definitely improving as a series. Great stuff by the actors playing Penguin and Alfred.

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Alfred has been a complete badass the last couple of episodes. Really like what they are doing with him.

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Fox picks up show for 2nd season.

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Looks like we get first look at Joker next week..

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This is a decent show, but it's still missing something.  I don't like it as much as I thought I would. 

And Sleepy Hollow, which comes on right after, has fallen off a cliff.  So disappointing after a promising first half of the first season.

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Seems like DC can make great TV shows (Arrow,Flash,Gotham) but only make ok movies. (Man of steel)

While Marvel can make Great Movies (Every movie in the Marvel Cinematic Universe series) but only make ok TV shows (Agents of shield) However Agent Carter is a great Series.

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Anyone see last night episode? Watching it now....just awesome.

The actor who played Jerome did a awesome job..He must of watched Jack in Batman 89..

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Watched it last night and the only slow spots seem to come from the stories involving Fish and Barbara.

Hopefully we see more of Jerome. The Red Hood Gang debuts next week.

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Another great episode last night. Between last week and this week they really playing who will be the Joker.

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Jada Pinkett Smith Not Returning For Gotham Season 2

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Jada Pinkett Smith Not Returning For Gotham Season 2

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Good. I don't like her character. I guess Penguin will kill her, asserting himself as a main player/mobster?

I think Bruce has become my favourite character now, and Catwoman/girl has become useless.

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The Scarecrow two parter was great.

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bpickering wrote: Jada Pinkett Smith Not Returning For Gotham Season 2
She grew on me.  People didn't like the character because it wasn't a "real" Batman character from the comics, but acting-wise she did a good job with it.

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Chris Chalk cast as Lucius Fox in Gotham.



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