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 Posted: Tue Oct 23rd, 2018 03:41 pm
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srossi
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bpickering wrote: Fans talk about the Von Erich curse. Seems like Anoa’i Family has a curse too. Lot of the members die young it seems.
There's Peter Maivia, Yokozuna, and Umaga.  Can't think of anyone else.  But you have to consider that the Anoa'i family is a lot larger and goes back generations.  The law of averages says that a few people will die young in a very large family if you look back over the past 50 years or so.  The von Erich curse is all about brothers from the same generation.



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 Posted: Tue Oct 23rd, 2018 03:47 pm
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srossi wrote: Superstar wrote: srossi wrote: Ultimark wrote: srossi wrote: Not sure if this was the original plan or not, but Rollins and Ambrose beat Ziggler and McIntyre for the Tag titles in a match they dedicated to Reigns to end Raw. Rollins is now a double champion with the I-C belt. Ambrose then immediately turns on Rollins and lays him out to absolute stunned silence. They seem to have rushed all the angles, including the heel turn, due to Reigns’ illness. The fans did not want to see this tonight. There was zero heat. Just mostly silence and tears.That story line made zero sense under the circumstances. 
They've been teasing Ambrose's turn for more than a year.  Then he got hurt, and now this.  They decided to just pull the trigger last night I guess for shock value.

If that's true they are fucking idiots.  Shock value was Reigns having leukemia.  Announcing that on a live RAW pretty much destroyed the crowd.  I was at the RAW where Edge was forced to retire, and after that segment, the live crowd was deader than Paul Bearer after Taker poured the cement on him.  They should learn that this type of thing cements the attitude of the crowd for the evening and they then need to do everything in their power to send the fans home happy - not pull shit like that.  Couldn't Ambrose have turned NEXT week, say, at the PPV or the RAW after it?  One week wouldn't have ruined the turn.

I agree.  There's no rush, quite the opposite there is a big benefit to drawing things out for months.  We all knew Ambrose was turning, they didn't have to do it last night.  I suppose they have some plan for Crown Jewel as to why he has to be a heel by then, because that's what they were building to all along, but it's not the end of the world to be a little flexible so that things make sense in light of recent news.

I was at the show last night with my son and I absolutely agree.  I'm not a huge fan of TV tapings to begin with (way too much filler/dead commercial time for the live crowd absorb, 4+ hour shows, etc.), but from the beginning, this show felt significant.  When Reigns came out and started cutting his promo, fans were still booing the crap out of him.  Even when he said "my name is Joe", which should've tipped people off that this was a shoot, he was still booed.  It was only when he mentioned the word "lukemia" that the booing subsided.  Admittedly, even I had to check my phone to make sure this wasn't a work.  But it was an unbelievable moment to have witnessed live, and the Shield group hug at the end was amazing...and this coming from a guy who only barely follows the current product.

Later in the show, when they announced the Shield would be going for the tag championship, I turned to my son and said "This could be a very historically significant show we're seeing here.  There's going to be a title change."

Fast forward to the change, all the guys worked their asses off, and the pop from the crowd was off the hook at the title change.  Then, as mentioned above, when they turned Ambrose, just silence.  But not necessarily stunned silence: silence like, "Well, you really f'ed that up, didn't you?"

I was talking to my son about it on the ride home and said I couldn't understand why they turned Ambrose.  He said they'd been building to the turn for months now, to which I said that they needed to adjust given the Reigns situation.  What they should've done is kept them champions, end on that tremendously high note, then turn Ambrose later, maybe in a couple weeks or so.  The build would've been much better, and the heat would've been much hotter, and really, why did it have to be done last night?  I'm sure they have the TV written already for the next several weeks, but really, when something like this falls in your lap, these writers need to adapt and adjust.  Instead, they wasted the whole night, which up until that point had been pretty great.  Nullified everything in about two seconds.  Just terrible.  These writers need to be fired.  My son agreed completely.



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 Posted: Tue Oct 23rd, 2018 03:59 pm
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bpickering
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srossi wrote: bpickering wrote: Fans talk about the Von Erich curse. Seems like Anoa’i Family has a curse too. Lot of the members die young it seems.
There's Peter Maivia, Yokozuna, and Umaga.  Can't think of anyone else.  But you have to consider that the Anoa'i family is a lot larger and goes back generations.  The law of averages says that a few people will die young in a very large family if you look back over the past 50 years or so.  The von Erich curse is all about brothers from the same generation.

Was not blood but part of the Family Gary Albright. 

Also Rosey. 

Last edited on Tue Oct 23rd, 2018 04:02 pm by bpickering



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 Posted: Tue Oct 23rd, 2018 05:01 pm
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Was it publicly known that Roman had suffered from leukemia years ago? I don't recall hearing of that prior to last night.

Peter Maivia and the Anoa'i family referred to each other as family, as does Rock, but there is no blood relation.

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 Posted: Tue Oct 23rd, 2018 09:41 pm
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srossi wrote: By the way, it appeared to be a double-turn main event as Strowman looks like a babyface feuding with McIntyre now. It was silly to ever turn Strowman in the first place, but now they need him as their top babyface with Reigns out.

Another turn during RAW was Elias who clobbered Corbin with the guitar.


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 Posted: Tue Oct 23rd, 2018 09:47 pm
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I am in the minority on this, but I think turning Ambrose last night was great. A great turn happens when you do not see it coming.
How many of you expected Ambrose to turn last night after the opening segment
I certainly did not expect it, even tho they had been teasing a heel turn for weeks.

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 Posted: Tue Oct 23rd, 2018 11:52 pm
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Given that he had leukaemia 11 years ago, it seems a bit unwise for him to take enough roids to fail two tests. That can't be healthy, surely?



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 Posted: Wed Oct 24th, 2018 12:54 am
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They don't drag storylines out these days.With a PPV every 4 weeks or less storylines have to start and culminate by the time the next PPV rolls around 
Or they do the opposite and have a horrible storyline go on forever. Virtually unwatchable.



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 Posted: Wed Oct 24th, 2018 08:59 am
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 Posted: Wed Oct 24th, 2018 02:15 pm
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srossi
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lobo316 wrote: I am in the minority on this, but I think turning Ambrose last night was great. A great turn happens when you do not see it coming.
How many of you expected Ambrose to turn last night after the opening segment
I certainly did not expect it, even tho they had been teasing a heel turn for weeks.

Mike Johnson agrees with you.

PWInsider:

I have seen some knocking the timing of the Dean Ambrose turn via emails and social media since last night's Monday Night Raw went off the air. I think last night was the night to do it. The Roman situation sucks and it hurts in a raw way. It wasn't something WWE asked for but it was something that was going to cause a massive change in the company - after all, Roman is their chosen golden boy.
As sad as it is to say this, the show has to go on and last night, the company did everything they could to re-assemble their broken chess board and storylines after losing the nucleus of the company as he's goes to attend to his family and fight the return of leukemia.   It's a horrible situation that everyone in the world wishes wasn't the case, but WWE has to move on, hopefully only for now, for life without Roman.  After years of propping him up as the guy and literally having John Cena hand him the torch, they are back to the drawing board because sometimes, life isn't fair.  

At the end of Monday Night Raw, Braun was unquestionably a babyface again and chances are the recent heel turn (like Daniel Bryan in the Wyatt Family) will be all but forgotten over the passage of time. Drew McIntyre rose a level to top heel. Elias turned, which makes sense since the crowd is entertained by and wants to get behind him anyway. Seth Rollins and Dean Ambrose did what they set out to accomplish, win the Raw Tag Team titles for Roman - then Dean turned.
The turn made sense, given the last few weeks (and probably would have happened eventually) but last night, no one saw it coming. No one expected it. It felt wrong and evil and vicious.  That's what made it great. Heel turns aren't supposed to be something you enjoy.  They are supposed to make you upset, as a viewer, for your hero, in this case Seth Rollins.  It's been a LONG time since pro wrestling had one at this major a level.  Emotionally, it hit people in the gut. 

That's what these things are supposed to do.  Leave you wanting to see the hero get his vengeance.

It was a different situation in terms of what brought it about but this morning, the more I thought about it, it reminded me of the night Barry Windham turned on Lex Luger in April 1988, which remains my all time favorite heel turn. No one saw it coming and it left you empty and shocked if you loved Barry or Lex or even Dusty Rhodes, who was a big part of the aftermath as the Midnight Rider. I think the reaction to the Dean turn was very much the same, especially for fans who have never truly experienced that sort of diabolical heel turn.  It wasn't teased.  It wasn't presented as just another angle.  It was an assault, not just on Seth, but on the very foundation of the same Shield that had stood emotionally shaken but united at the start of Raw.

Was it somewhat exploitive of the Roman situation? I'd agree with those who feel this way, but WWE also needed to do something to kickoff the new chapter they have been forced into.   They didn't have to ability to wait a few weeks because that's not the way the world works.  It doesn't slow down and neither do WWE storylines.  WWE had a duty to move things forward, even if it emotionally kicked the audience in the gut.  I'd have personally preferred that WWE skip the pre-taped Undertaker vignette showing graves and tombstones last night myself, but they had stories they needed to tell, whether anyone liked them or not.  WWE had no choice but to figure a way out, they made their decisions and they executed them.

Last night, they set the chessboard for Dean vs. Seth in an extremely personal, raw story as well as Braun vs. Drew & Dolph Ziggler and Elias vs. Corbin as new storylines. They needed to reboot and hotshot and with PPVs and live events and Crown Jewel ahead, they needed to do it NOW. I don't begrudge them for that.  It was a rough situation for that creative team and those performers to be in and they did the best they could with the heartbreaking circumstance they were handed.  I think WWE did the best they could with what they were deal.

Obviously, everyone involved would much rather have a healthy Roman Reigns, just as you and I and everyone else would, but that's not
reality anyone is dealing with.  It's very easy to paint WWE as the evil Empire but last night, the entire company learned when we did about Roman's health. I truly feel WWE did the best they could with a horrible situation just trying to move things along despite the obvious heartache everyone across the board working for the company felt and the obvious void they now, as a company, have to fill.
All of that is secondary to the important story here, Roman Reigns' fight to get healthy, but WWE had no choice but to make some hard decisions and they went through with them last night by turning Dean Ambrose....and it was the right call to make, in my opinion.

Just my 2 cents.

Last edited on Wed Oct 24th, 2018 02:16 pm by srossi



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 Posted: Wed Oct 24th, 2018 03:06 pm
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Meltzer confirmed that Ambrose's turn was NOT originally scheduled for this week and was going to happen in the coming weeks.  It was moved up as a direct result of Reigns' announcement.  Ambrose vs. Rollins will now have to be a top drawing feud with Reigns out.

The Elias face turn was coming but was also moved up to this week because WWE felt like they needed another strong babyface with Reigns leaving and Ambrose turning, so it was all a ripple effect.  The turns were described as "resetting the chess pieces on the board".   

All early plans for WrestleMania have been thrown out the window and the company is starting from scratch.  Nothing was set in stone yet anyway, but they had ideas that have been scrapped and they're starting from square one.

Also, the announcers legitimately did not know that Reigns had leukemia and was going to cut that promo, so their reactions were 100% real.  The announcement was a shock to everyone except the McMahon family, talent relations, and those very close to Reigns like the Usos, Rollins, and Ambrose.  If Ambrose knew, I'm not sure how Renee Young didn't, but Meltzer claims the announcers didn't know.

Last edited on Wed Oct 24th, 2018 03:13 pm by srossi



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 Posted: Wed Oct 24th, 2018 04:39 pm
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srossi wrote: If Ambrose knew, I'm not sure how Renee Young didn't, but Meltzer claims the announcers didn't know.
Another case of Meltzer being against females - he didn't even realize Renee Young was to be considered an announcer.  Because there's no way Dean Ambrose knows this and Renee Young doesn't when they are basically together 90% of the time.



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 Posted: Wed Oct 24th, 2018 04:48 pm
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Superstar wrote: srossi wrote: If Ambrose knew, I'm not sure how Renee Young didn't, but Meltzer claims the announcers didn't know.
Another case of Meltzer being against females - he didn't even realize Renee Young was to be considered an announcer.  Because there's no way Dean Ambrose knows this and Renee Young doesn't when they are basically together 90% of the time.

The only way is if Ambrose found out earlier in the day and Young was in prep meetings for the broadcast and they didn't speak or text.  Doubtful but possible. I'm sure the few people who knew were told to keep quiet about it.

Last edited on Wed Oct 24th, 2018 04:49 pm by srossi



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 Posted: Wed Oct 24th, 2018 06:44 pm
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Samu has revealed that he is battling stage 4 liver cancer on Facebook today:

I want to take a minute to address the situation with myself and that of my family.

I recently have posted I am selling shirts "Anoa’i Strong”

These shirts have been for sale for many years and in light of the current situation that has struck myself and my family, I have decided to change the shirts to various colors for cancer.

My cousins news has struck the world and we are all devastated at this time.

What many of you may or may not know is I am also dealing with stage 4 liver cancer and am currently waiting for God’s grace to help me get a transplant.

I am an elder member of my family and in no way am I or my family attempting to profit from any serious sickness. Instead, I want to use our name in order to help doctors and researchers find ways to cure this evil sickness.

I do not endorse or will I ever endorse profit on the misfortune of others or myself or that of my family.

I want all of my friends, family and fans to know we will always remain “Anoa’i Strong.” and these shirts will remain for sale and we will be speaking with various cancer organizations on how we can help.

Until you can stand in the shoes we stand in you will never know the pain and the struggle we endure daily.

Respectfully
Samu Anoa'i

Last edited on Wed Oct 24th, 2018 06:44 pm by srossi



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 Posted: Thu Oct 25th, 2018 12:13 am
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