WowBB Forums Home 
WowBB Forums > Sports And Wrestling > General Discussion > Nobody Wants To Work Anymore

 Moderated by: Ron, brodiescomics, beejmi  
AuthorPost
beejmi
THE BIG KAHUNA


Joined: Sat Oct 13th, 2007
Location: Philly
Posts: 50556
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 
Whats your theory on why this has happened?

Are you sticking to the original theory of 'the pandemic and over-stimulus'?

Or is there more to it at this point?

Papa Voo



Joined: Thu Jan 17th, 2008
Location: Right Outside The Burgh, USA
Posts: 10671
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 
More to it.

Pandemic still playing a part with uncertainty about the virus.

Most extended UC benefits have ended. Stimulus and banked UC only have so much of a shelf life for people paying bills.

I also think people want a living wage.

Several dynamics are involved here. I do not think it is just one issue.

Big Garea Fan
MR BASKETBALL
 

Joined: Wed Mar 4th, 2009
Location:  
Posts: 4456
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 
I think that a lot of people decided to take retirements earlier than they had planned due to the pandemic, vaccine requirements, etc. This opened up a lot of job opportunities that wouldn't have been available otherwise. Many employers were unable to find qualified job candidates so they had to lower the qualifications to attract applicants. The newly qualified job candidates were able to get better positions / salaries so they left the "bad jobs" that they previously held. The "bad jobs" are struggling to attract workers due to the new expectation that everyone should get at least $15 per hour. This is also causing experienced workers who are barely making above $15 per hour to seek out new jobs since they view it as unfair that new employees with no experience are able to get salaries almost equal to theirs even though they have more experience. They want a pay bump too or else they walk.

Other possible ideas are:
Maybe COVID has increased the number of people unable to work due to "long COVID"?
Currently, approximately 850,000 deaths in the United States have been blamed on COVID. Could a large number of these deaths have been of people in the workforce?
Do some states still have unemployment benefits in place pay better than actually working?

For young people entering the workforce, this could be a great time to build up savings. I am hopeful that this situation is still in place when my son turns 14 and is eligible to work a part-time job. At $15 per hour for about 20 hours per week and while still living at home, he should be able to amass a decent amount of savings.

Big Garea Fan
MR BASKETBALL
 

Joined: Wed Mar 4th, 2009
Location:  
Posts: 4456
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 
Big Garea Fan wrote: I think that a lot of people decided to take retirements earlier than they had planned due to the pandemic, vaccine requirements, etc. This opened up a lot of job opportunities that wouldn't have been available otherwise. Many employers were unable to find qualified job candidates so they had to lower the qualifications to attract applicants. The newly qualified job candidates were able to get better positions / salaries so they left the "bad jobs" that they previously held. The "bad jobs" are struggling to attract workers due to the new expectation that everyone should get at least $15 per hour. This is also causing experienced workers who are barely making above $15 per hour to seek out new jobs since they view it as unfair that new employees with no experience are able to get salaries almost equal to theirs even though they have more experience. They want a pay bump too or else they walk.

Other possible ideas are:
Maybe COVID has increased the number of people unable to work due to "long COVID"?
Currently, approximately 850,000 deaths in the United States have been blamed on COVID. Could a large number of these deaths have been of people in the workforce?
Do some states still have unemployment benefits in place pay better than actually working?

For young people entering the workforce, this could be a great time to build up savings. I am hopeful that this situation is still in place when my son turns 14 and is eligible to work a part-time job. At $15 per hour for about 20 hours per week and while still living at home, he should be able to amass a decent amount of savings. It sure beats the $80 per month that I made from my newspaper route and the $100 per weekend that I made as a busboy back in the mid-1980s

Papa Voo



Joined: Thu Jan 17th, 2008
Location: Right Outside The Burgh, USA
Posts: 10671
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 
I am not saying it is right or wrong, but isn’t the whole idea of drastically increasing the entry-level wage is to push a big boost across the table?

beejmi
THE BIG KAHUNA


Joined: Sat Oct 13th, 2007
Location: Philly
Posts: 50556
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 
Let me add this to the mix. I am thinking there are other situations similar to this.

In PA, minimum wage is $7.25

Next state over, New Jersey, $13 an hour


Is this a factor?

I do think part of it was the stimulus added to the unemployment and now people want more for their time, energy and effort.  Being at home paid better than working. So now they want more. I don't blame them.

kargol



Joined: Thu Oct 18th, 2007
Location: Brum, United Kingdom
Posts: 5424
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 
I think this is a knock-on effect of the 2008 crash. For a few years afterwards people thought there would be a reckoning and a re-setting. And it hasn't happened. The same people who fucked up then are still in charge now - and making coin on the work of those who bear the brunt of every downturn.

I've seen the change in my own working lifetime. When I started in the late nineties there was a sort of employer culture ethos, in that the partners wanted to get out early and bring on the younger staff. But the group between me and the partners basically decided, no, we're going to take control and never let go. They're still there now.

And now we see the reaction every time there is a problem is to sack the workers rather than sack off the bonuses. It's worse now than in the last 50 years. Therefore people are voting with their feet.

Add to that welfare. Right now the younger generations are working to pay for the pensions for the older generations; pensions that are no longer available to current workers; and to older generations that, in many places, have more or less won the lottery, by getting property when it was cheap and now sitting on massive piles of property cash - while the younger workers cannot afford it.

The system is getting more and more bodged just to keep it going. The biggest problem? The restrictions on smoking. 30 years ago an entire generation was dying at 65, having paid their stamp all their lives, and dying before they needed to draw on it. As well as contributing to the exchequer via taxes. Now people are stopping smoking, they're living longer and paying less tax. Bad move.

gwlee7
HALL OF FAMER


Joined: Mon Oct 15th, 2007
Location: Lewisville, Texas USA
Posts: 5745
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 
When your boss can fly William Shatner into space on a whim, and could give every single employee in the company a $50,000 gift while still having 10s of billions of dollars left over, it’s hard to give a fuck.

gwlee7
HALL OF FAMER


Joined: Mon Oct 15th, 2007
Location: Lewisville, Texas USA
Posts: 5745
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 
And, capitalists always love a “free market” until it works against them. Supply and demand and all that. Pay some one to work and they’ll show up.

gwlee7
HALL OF FAMER


Joined: Mon Oct 15th, 2007
Location: Lewisville, Texas USA
Posts: 5745
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 
And, I don’t want to hear “well what about small business owners?” No one told you to start a business with the hope that motherfuckers would be willing to starve for you.  

Franchise
Low key big hog


Joined: Mon Oct 15th, 2007
Location: Cincy, Ohio
Posts: 5725
Status: 
Online
Mana: 
gwlee7 wrote: And, capitalists always love a “free market” until it works against them. Supply and demand and all that. Pay some one to work and they’ll show up.

A lot of industries will pay in the short term, but it will speed up automation because some things are only worth so much and it will be "automate or go out of business". 

I think as a nation we got sloppy and expected things to be way too accessible and I think when we come out of this, we are going to see a lot less fast-food options, 24hr stores and slower amazon turnaround time amongst other things. 

Papa Voo



Joined: Thu Jan 17th, 2008
Location: Right Outside The Burgh, USA
Posts: 10671
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 
Franchise wrote: gwlee7 wrote: And, capitalists always love a “free market” until it works against them. Supply and demand and all that. Pay some one to work and they’ll show up.

A lot of industries will pay in the short term, but it will speed up automation because some things are only worth so much and it will be "automate or go out of business". 

I think as a nation we got sloppy and expected things to be way too accessible and I think when we come out of this, we are going to see a lot less fast-food options, 24hr stores and slower amazon turnaround time amongst other things. 


Do you really think that about slower turnaround times?  I see that as a competition point in the market. I see that actually improving. 

Franchise
Low key big hog


Joined: Mon Oct 15th, 2007
Location: Cincy, Ohio
Posts: 5725
Status: 
Online
Mana: 
kargol wrote: Right now the younger generations are working to pay for the pensions for the older generations; pensions that are no longer available to current workers; and to older generations that, in many places, have more or less won the lottery, by getting property when it was cheap and now sitting on massive piles of property cash - while the younger workers cannot afford it.


Some of these 2-tiered systems that have popped up in the union world are pretty brutal especially considering the pension and early retirement were the selling point to a lot of people to put up with the crap hours and back breaking labor. 

Papa Voo



Joined: Thu Jan 17th, 2008
Location: Right Outside The Burgh, USA
Posts: 10671
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 
gwlee7 wrote: And, capitalists always love a “free market” until it works against them. Supply and demand and all that. Pay some one to work and they’ll show up.

THIS IS TODAY’S WEALTH OF WISDOM POST!    Slam dunk and dropped mic. 

Franchise
Low key big hog


Joined: Mon Oct 15th, 2007
Location: Cincy, Ohio
Posts: 5725
Status: 
Online
Mana: 
Papa Voo wrote: Franchise wrote: gwlee7 wrote: And, capitalists always love a “free market” until it works against them. Supply and demand and all that. Pay some one to work and they’ll show up.

A lot of industries will pay in the short term, but it will speed up automation because some things are only worth so much and it will be "automate or go out of business". 

I think as a nation we got sloppy and expected things to be way too accessible and I think when we come out of this, we are going to see a lot less fast-food options, 24hr stores and slower amazon turnaround time amongst other things. 


Do you really think that about slower turnaround times?  I see that as a competition point in the market. I see that actually improving. 



I'm seeing more and more delays with Amazon, USPS & UPS post-Christmas then I ever have before.

These companies can only pay so much to drivers, sorters and loaders before it becomes cheaper to push it a day. It's not like we the end user can bill the delivery service because our most recent purchase was delivered a day late.  

Papa Voo



Joined: Thu Jan 17th, 2008
Location: Right Outside The Burgh, USA
Posts: 10671
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 
I was thinking this was due more to covid.

Franchise
Low key big hog


Joined: Mon Oct 15th, 2007
Location: Cincy, Ohio
Posts: 5725
Status: 
Online
Mana: 
Papa Voo wrote: I was thinking this was due more to covid.

it's a piece for sure but it's just one of many. 

gwlee7
HALL OF FAMER


Joined: Mon Oct 15th, 2007
Location: Lewisville, Texas USA
Posts: 5745
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 
Franchise wrote: Papa Voo wrote: Franchise wrote: gwlee7 wrote: And, capitalists always love a “free market” until it works against them. Supply and demand and all that. Pay some one to work and they’ll show up.

A lot of industries will pay in the short term, but it will speed up automation because some things are only worth so much and it will be "automate or go out of business". 

I think as a nation we got sloppy and expected things to be way too accessible and I think when we come out of this, we are going to see a lot less fast-food options, 24hr stores and slower amazon turnaround time amongst other things. 


Do you really think that about slower turnaround times?  I see that as a competition point in the market. I see that actually improving. 



I'm seeing more and more delays with Amazon, USPS & UPS post-Christmas then I ever have before.

These companies can only pay so much to drivers, sorters and loaders before it becomes cheaper to push it a day. It's not like we the end user can bill the delivery service because our most recent purchase was delivered a day late.  

Jeff Bezo’s net worth increased by $4.5 billion in 2021.  
https://www.scmp.com/news/world/united-states-canada/article/3161831/wealth-worlds-10-richest-ballooned-us402-billion#:~:text=His%20closest%20competitor%20and%20fellow,since%20this%20time%20last%20year.

Franchise
Low key big hog


Joined: Mon Oct 15th, 2007
Location: Cincy, Ohio
Posts: 5725
Status: 
Online
Mana: 
gwlee7 wrote: Franchise wrote: Papa Voo wrote: Franchise wrote: gwlee7 wrote: And, capitalists always love a “free market” until it works against them. Supply and demand and all that. Pay some one to work and they’ll show up.

A lot of industries will pay in the short term, but it will speed up automation because some things are only worth so much and it will be "automate or go out of business". 

I think as a nation we got sloppy and expected things to be way too accessible and I think when we come out of this, we are going to see a lot less fast-food options, 24hr stores and slower amazon turnaround time amongst other things. 


Do you really think that about slower turnaround times?  I see that as a competition point in the market. I see that actually improving. 



I'm seeing more and more delays with Amazon, USPS & UPS post-Christmas then I ever have before.

These companies can only pay so much to drivers, sorters and loaders before it becomes cheaper to push it a day. It's not like we the end user can bill the delivery service because our most recent purchase was delivered a day late.  

Jeff Bezo’s net worth increased by $4.5 billion in 2021.  
https://www.scmp.com/news/world/united-states-canada/article/3161831/wealth-worlds-10-richest-ballooned-us402-billion#:~:text=His%20closest%20competitor%20and%20fellow,since%20this%20time%20last%20year.



The redistribution of wealth everyone was clamoring for. 

gwlee7
HALL OF FAMER


Joined: Mon Oct 15th, 2007
Location: Lewisville, Texas USA
Posts: 5745
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 
I find it odd that so many people think that having all of the world’s wealth concentrated in the hands of a very few people is ok. It doesn’t trickle down. Wealth is being extracted.

srossi
HALL OF FAMER
 

Joined: Sun Oct 14th, 2007
Location: New York USA
Posts: 60945
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 
Franchise wrote: gwlee7 wrote: Franchise wrote: Papa Voo wrote: Franchise wrote: gwlee7 wrote: And, capitalists always love a “free market” until it works against them. Supply and demand and all that. Pay some one to work and they’ll show up.

A lot of industries will pay in the short term, but it will speed up automation because some things are only worth so much and it will be "automate or go out of business". 

I think as a nation we got sloppy and expected things to be way too accessible and I think when we come out of this, we are going to see a lot less fast-food options, 24hr stores and slower amazon turnaround time amongst other things. 


Do you really think that about slower turnaround times?  I see that as a competition point in the market. I see that actually improving. 



I'm seeing more and more delays with Amazon, USPS & UPS post-Christmas then I ever have before.

These companies can only pay so much to drivers, sorters and loaders before it becomes cheaper to push it a day. It's not like we the end user can bill the delivery service because our most recent purchase was delivered a day late.  

Jeff Bezo’s net worth increased by $4.5 billion in 2021.  
https://www.scmp.com/news/world/united-states-canada/article/3161831/wealth-worlds-10-richest-ballooned-us402-billion#:~:text=His%20closest%20competitor%20and%20fellow,since%20this%20time%20last%20year.



The redistribution of wealth everyone was clamoring for. 

You mean shutting down everything and making everyone stay home made Amazon even more powerful?  Didn't see that coming. 

wittman2

 

Joined: Mon Feb 18th, 2008
Location:  
Posts: 918
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 
Two things stick out to me here

1) How are these people who aren't/refusing to work because of pay paying their bills and rent/mortgage? Don't these fuckers need to make some money to, you know, live?

2) I think right now you're going to start seeing a huge increase in automatons in businesses that can afford them- a lot of what were entry level jobs, like fast food workers, will be obsolete because the franchisee isn't going to pay $15-$20 hr in the long term. So right now it looks like there will be changes, but I think its just a matter of time before the owners of the large corps decide to fuck it all and invest in the future and only have a small skeleton crew of actual people working

srossi
HALL OF FAMER
 

Joined: Sun Oct 14th, 2007
Location: New York USA
Posts: 60945
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 
wittman2 wrote: Two things stick out to me here

1) How are these people who aren't/refusing to work because of pay paying their bills and rent/mortgage? Don't these fuckers need to make some money to, you know, live?

Rent moratoriums added to the fact that it's almost impossible to evict in many states under the best of circumstances, much less now.  People have gotten used to free money and not having to pay their own bills, and then everyone wonders no one will go back to work.  So in short, no, only the middle class have to actually worry about paying bills these days. 

beejmi
THE BIG KAHUNA


Joined: Sat Oct 13th, 2007
Location: Philly
Posts: 50556
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 
I have a job where I can't 'work from home'. I'm getting murdered.

Principal_Raditch



Joined: Mon Feb 18th, 2008
Location:  
Posts: 7936
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 
Some of it comes down to $$$. For RN's now, the combination of a bunch retiring earlier than usual, and new grads churning out at @ 20% less than in the past (due to less clinical instructors and availability of placements) it's allowed the remaining RN's to give their employers the finger if they don't put out more $$$. No one is going to take on the extra work load we've seen the past 2 years for the same shitty COLA raises. Since we know that there are less new grads coming out for the foreseeable future, you force the employer to cough up more $$$ or leave for an easier job outside the industry.

WHen I sat with the CEO of our hospital a week ago it was probably a good thing I had on my mask, because her rehearsed speech answers were laughable. She asked me if I had any thoughts on how to retain new staff, and I told her to pay us better. No one gives a shit about loyalty to the employer now that this has happened. It's down to pay and staffing ratios. If you're not going to pay as well as the other hospitals, you better make sure your staff to patient ratio is lower, or there's no point in staying. So far I think that' the only thing that's keeping most of the staff from leaving. On my unit we're supposed to run 4:1 with a tech on days and 5:1 at nights. We stretch to 5:1 and 6:1 when we're short with the charge taking a full load. Elsewhere the higher payday comes with taking 6 patients and no tech. I'd have pissed off a while ago if the ratio's were equivalent elsewhere.

beejmi
THE BIG KAHUNA


Joined: Sat Oct 13th, 2007
Location: Philly
Posts: 50556
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 
So Raditch, what you are saying is ‘Thank Yous don’t pay the bills’

Principal_Raditch



Joined: Mon Feb 18th, 2008
Location:  
Posts: 7936
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 
Pretty much. I don't care about award's or free pizza or the latest " gift " a yeti coffee mug. Right now our raises vary depending on scores at work. The difference between being the highest rated at 5, or being average at 3.1-4.9 is 0.5%. So in effect if I'm barely above getting fired at 3.1 I only get 0.5 % less than working my ass off. It works out to less than 1 shifts pay in the end. There's no incentive for me to go full out to get a 4.9 rating and get the same raise as the person who screws around. There's really no incentive for me to try and get a 5 rating with the piddly difference.

Jim_Irish

 

Joined: Wed Mar 3rd, 2021
Location:  
Posts: 1675
Status: 
Online
Mana: 
Principal_Raditch wrote: Pretty much. I don't care about award's or free pizza or the latest " gift " a yeti coffee mug. Right now our raises vary depending on scores at work. The difference between being the highest rated at 5, or being average at 3.1-4.9 is 0.5%. So in effect if I'm barely above getting fired at 3.1 I only get 0.5 % less than working my ass off. It works out to less than 1 shifts pay in the end. There's no incentive for me to go full out to get a 4.9 rating and get the same raise as the person who screws around. There's really no incentive for me to try and get a 5 rating with the piddly difference.

As someone who has experience dealing with HR departments on pay deals I know they loved to talk about how pay wasn't *that* important or wasn't the be all and end all, but that they wanted to engage with staff in more productive ways, increase ways for staff to 'develop', and a lot of other bullshit. I think they have severely overestimated how much people miss the office. It was true, for while and for a lot of people. But that was nearly two years ago. And company loyalty and team spririt or whatever you want to call it is down the shitter too.

Jim_Irish

 

Joined: Wed Mar 3rd, 2021
Location:  
Posts: 1675
Status: 
Online
Mana: 
The bar and restaurant trade has been shut or curtailed for nearly 2 years now. Hiring is going to be difficult. It has been difficult with each reopening/easing or restrictions. The main reason is it's a reasonably low paying job with bad hours. The government here decided to give €350 (about €400) a week to everyone who was out of work due to covid related closures. This included a student doing a night a week in a bar who might have made €100 normally. Plenty of full time bar staff would not have earned €350 a week anyway. 
Not hard to see why people will be reluctant to go back to working in bars and night clubs if and when things are back to normal. 

Last edited on Tue Jan 18th, 2022 10:37 pm by Jim_Irish

Blazer
Head Auditor, CPA


Joined: Sun Sep 4th, 2011
Location:  
Posts: 9236
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 
I was at Walmart yesterday, a place I despise. I know different Walmarts have different levels of cleanliness, safety, etc. This particular one, about ten minutes from our house, is an absolute shithole. I joke that it's the 7th circle of hell. Parking lot is shady as fuck, people sitting in their cars (cars, by the way, always backed into the parking spot...ALWAYS), place stinks like weed, customers cussing at each other, employees cussing at each other. Demographics, it's largely African American with a little bit of hispanic thrown in. I had to look at three or four things (batteries, protein powder (didn't have what I needed), vitamins, kid wanted me to check if they had new Pokemon cards)...

So, I'm walking around the store yesterday, about 3pm on a Monday (I had the day off), place is fucking packed, and I'm watching these people and thinking, how in god's name are they finding money to pay for any of this shit they're buying? These people looked to me to be largely unemployable, unless you're talking about the most menial of menial jobs like scrubbing toilets or digging ditches. I have no idea where these people are getting money from.

srossi
HALL OF FAMER
 

Joined: Sun Oct 14th, 2007
Location: New York USA
Posts: 60945
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 
Blazer wrote: I was at Walmart yesterday, a place I despise. I know different Walmarts have different levels of cleanliness, safety, etc. This particular one, about ten minutes from our house, is an absolute shithole. I joke that it's the 7th circle of hell. Parking lot is shady as fuck, people sitting in their cars (cars, by the way, always backed into the parking spot...ALWAYS), place stinks like weed, customers cussing at each other, employees cussing at each other. Demographics, it's largely African American with a little bit of hispanic thrown in. I had to look at three or four things (batteries, protein powder (didn't have what I needed), vitamins, kid wanted me to check if they had new Pokemon cards)...

So, I'm walking around the store yesterday, about 3pm on a Monday (I had the day off), place is fucking packed, and I'm watching these people and thinking, how in god's name are they finding money to pay for any of this shit they're buying? These people looked to me to be largely unemployable, unless you're talking about the most menial of menial jobs like scrubbing toilets or digging ditches. I have no idea where these people are getting money from.

Well everyone (but me) was off yesterday for MLK Day so not the best day to assume they were all unemployed, although I’m sure they were. 

Principal_Raditch



Joined: Mon Feb 18th, 2008
Location:  
Posts: 7936
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 
Jim_Irish wrote: Principal_Raditch wrote: Pretty much. I don't care about award's or free pizza or the latest " gift " a yeti coffee mug. Right now our raises vary depending on scores at work. The difference between being the highest rated at 5, or being average at 3.1-4.9 is 0.5%. So in effect if I'm barely above getting fired at 3.1 I only get 0.5 % less than working my ass off. It works out to less than 1 shifts pay in the end. There's no incentive for me to go full out to get a 4.9 rating and get the same raise as the person who screws around. There's really no incentive for me to try and get a 5 rating with the piddly difference.

As someone who has experience dealing with HR departments on pay deals I know they loved to talk about how pay wasn't *that* important or wasn't the be all and end all, but that they wanted to engage with staff in more productive ways, increase ways for staff to 'develop', and a lot of other bullshit. I think they have severely overestimated how much people miss the office. It was true, for while and for a lot of people. But that was nearly two years ago. And company loyalty and team spririt or whatever you want to call it is down the shitter too.

Another example of this is our "certifications" So I keep on getting bugged by our system educators to get certified in my discipline. The test costs @ $200. If you fail the test, you're on the hook for the cost. You only get reimbursed for passing. Then you need to recertify every 5 years. I asked what's the increase in pay compensation for it....a whole 50 cents an hour. So since I work @ 24-26 hrs a week on average, you're talking maybe $13 extra a week or $650 a year. Here's the kicker. If I pick up a bonus shift, I can make $800 for 12 hrs work. Why the hell would I go and put al the time into studying (which I guarantee will take longer than the 12 hrs) when I can make the same amount as the whole years increase in @ 10 hrs. Of course the response is the usual "it's not just about the $$$" it's the honor, prestige etc...So basically meaningless stuff that some people want to just add to the end of the name on their work badges to make them them think they're better than the next RN. 

It's the same with our corporate ladder. We have RN1-RN4. The higher you go, there's a slight increase in hourly rate. But you have to do annual projects to maintain it. I've never bothered going above an RN 2 because the time spent doing the RN3 or RN4 projects will be longer than the compensation I'd receive for just picking up a few bonus shifts. I've pointed it out, but get the "be a team player" garbage. I guess maybe that works with 25 year olds who think it matters. 

Jim_Irish

 

Joined: Wed Mar 3rd, 2021
Location:  
Posts: 1675
Status: 
Online
Mana: 
Haha, I've had similar experiences with some of the meaningless or valueless certifications. The company is pretty good for covering the cost and the retake cost if you fail. Like you, I weigh up the actual costs (money and time). The one difference since the working from home is that many of these tests are very, very easy to chest on so I've taken them up on a few that I normally wouldn't. Most of these certificates are meaningless and of no practical use to me but they are no harm to have if I'm going for another job or a promotion.
Which leads me on to the promotion side of things... I have probably one more promotion in my job which would make sense for me and if I stick around I'd expect to get it in the next year or so. Anything higher than that and while I'll get more money I'll lose out on a lot  the flexibility of time that I currently have and ability to take extra days off with time worked up. So, again, not worth it to me (and many others feel the same). 

Last edited on Wed Jan 19th, 2022 02:01 am by Jim_Irish

Big Garea Fan
MR BASKETBALL
 

Joined: Wed Mar 4th, 2009
Location:  
Posts: 4456
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 
Principal_Raditch wrote: Jim_Irish wrote: Principal_Raditch wrote: Pretty much. I don't care about award's or free pizza or the latest " gift " a yeti coffee mug. Right now our raises vary depending on scores at work. The difference between being the highest rated at 5, or being average at 3.1-4.9 is 0.5%. So in effect if I'm barely above getting fired at 3.1 I only get 0.5 % less than working my ass off. It works out to less than 1 shifts pay in the end. There's no incentive for me to go full out to get a 4.9 rating and get the same raise as the person who screws around. There's really no incentive for me to try and get a 5 rating with the piddly difference.

As someone who has experience dealing with HR departments on pay deals I know they loved to talk about how pay wasn't *that* important or wasn't the be all and end all, but that they wanted to engage with staff in more productive ways, increase ways for staff to 'develop', and a lot of other bullshit. I think they have severely overestimated how much people miss the office. It was true, for while and for a lot of people. But that was nearly two years ago. And company loyalty and team spririt or whatever you want to call it is down the shitter too.

Another example of this is our "certifications" So I keep on getting bugged by our system educators to get certified in my discipline. The test costs @ $200. If you fail the test, you're on the hook for the cost. You only get reimbursed for passing. Then you need to recertify every 5 years. I asked what's the increase in pay compensation for it....a whole 50 cents an hour. So since I work @ 24-26 hrs a week on average, you're talking maybe $13 extra a week or $650 a year. Here's the kicker. If I pick up a bonus shift, I can make $800 for 12 hrs work. Why the hell would I go and put al the time into studying (which I guarantee will take longer than the 12 hrs) when I can make the same amount as the whole years increase in @ 10 hrs. Of course the response is the usual "it's not just about the $$$" it's the honor, prestige etc...So basically meaningless stuff that some people want to just add to the end of the name on their work badges to make them them think they're better than the next RN. 

It's the same with our corporate ladder. We have RN1-RN4. The higher you go, there's a slight increase in hourly rate. But you have to do annual projects to maintain it. I've never bothered going above an RN 2 because the time spent doing the RN3 or RN4 projects will be longer than the compensation I'd receive for just picking up a few bonus shifts. I've pointed it out, but get the "be a team player" garbage. I guess maybe that works with 25 year olds who think it matters. 
Hospital leaderships also like to play the "you got into the medical field to help people, right?" card in an attempt to make you feel guilty about wanting higher pay, better working conditions, etc. They play this card often such as when you are short staffed, low annual COLAs, and needing volunteers to do grunt work that nobody else will do. All the while, the hospital leadership pulls in big money and golden parachutes.

I also hate that some "elite" hospitals / medical systems intentionally pay low salaries and make it seem like a privilege to work for them. The few that I have interviewed for offered salaries that were approximately 20% lower than other hospitals in the area. 

Last edited on Wed Jan 19th, 2022 04:18 pm by Big Garea Fan

Principal_Raditch



Joined: Mon Feb 18th, 2008
Location:  
Posts: 7936
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 
They do that here with Children's Mercy Hospital. They make it seem like it's a privilege to deal with sick children more than adults and expect you to take @ 10% lower wage than what other hospitals here will pay for comparable experience. I once had a manager do the "it's not all about the $$$" in a staff meeting, to which my response was "Yes it is, since Pizza Parties for no falls in a month don't pay my mortgage or the health care premiums I need to pay so I don't end up owing this hospital a huge amount of $$$ as a self pay if I"m ever a patient"

stingmark

 

Joined: Mon Oct 15th, 2007
Location: Cop City, California USA
Posts: 9440
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 
Principal_Raditch wrote: They do that here with Children's Mercy Hospital. They make it seem like it's a privilege to deal with sick children more than adults and expect you to take @ 10% lower wage than what other hospitals here will pay for comparable experience. I once had a manager do the "it's not all about the $$$" in a staff meeting, to which my response was "Yes it is, since Pizza Parties for no falls in a month don't pay my mortgage or the health care premiums I need to pay so I don't end up owing this hospital a huge amount of $$$ as a self pay if I"m ever a patient"Lol! That's when you then ask him/her" If it's not about that, then when will YOU be taking that pay cut yourself"? Watch how fast they stumble.amd deflect from it.

Franchise
Low key big hog


Joined: Mon Oct 15th, 2007
Location: Cincy, Ohio
Posts: 5725
Status: 
Online
Mana: 
Principal_Raditch wrote: Pretty much. I don't care about award's or free pizza or the latest " gift " a yeti coffee mug. Right now our raises vary depending on scores at work. The difference between being the highest rated at 5, or being average at 3.1-4.9 is 0.5%. So in effect if I'm barely above getting fired at 3.1 I only get 0.5 % less than working my ass off. It works out to less than 1 shifts pay in the end. There's no incentive for me to go full out to get a 4.9 rating and get the same raise as the person who screws around. There's really no incentive for me to try and get a 5 rating with the piddly difference.


Trying to sell the idea of the value of a "gift" over pay has always been in my top 3 most hated things about being in management. It's so lame and outside of the one person that would prefer to have a $15.00 plaque to hang on their wall instead of a pay raise it's always seen as a slight by even the most company of company employees I've ever had the misfortune of selling it to.    

gwlee7
HALL OF FAMER


Joined: Mon Oct 15th, 2007
Location: Lewisville, Texas USA
Posts: 5745
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 
School districts are notorious for both patronizing and rah, rah bullshit. In my exit interview in December, I told the HR person that handing out slogans and breakfast biscuit coupons was no way to retain staff. The way to retain staff was to refrain from treating the poorly. 



UltraBB 1.172 Copyright © 2007-2013 Data 1 Systems