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 Posted: Fri Jan 21st, 2022 07:19 pm
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Papa Voo



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Superstar wrote: Honestly everything I read above has solid merit. What I believe is that it really shifted gears during Trump's campaign in 2015. Because it stopped being two parties bickering, it ended up going right down to the normal working class stiffs. When Obama was president, you could walk around my office and not much was talked about politically, and if anything was said, such as "I don't like Obama", it didn't spark up a heated war. When Trump ran, and the campaign hit home with so many average people that felt the government has been letting them down, they all of a sudden became experts when it comes to politics, and if you aren't with Trump, you are dead wrong. So ever since that election, political talks around the office get nasty, heated, and personal. And that's manifested itself in the streets too.

I don't like to get political, I have my opinions on right vs wrong. If I don't agree with you, it doesn't make either one of us a fucking idiot. Yet, sometimes that's how it gets portrayed by these political experts that wouldn't even know where to go to vote before Trump ran. And just so I'm being clear here - I'm not blaming all of the people that follow Trump for this, because the people that hate Trump are even nastier when these arguments break out. It's broken on both sides of the fence because fact of the matter is, NONE OF US truly know what they hell they are doing in the government. And we never will, as they control the entire narrative.


Very good post.  I do not fall in line with all of it, but I definitely can agree with most of it. 

I do not think this all started with Trump’s election. It just got way worse. 

My little wish to rewrite history would be to have Trump run as a third party or Independent.   That really would have been interesting.  I am mean, seriously, come on…the evangelicals aligning themselves with Donald Trump?  what world are we living in?  If Trump does not run as a Republican and embrace the GOP standard platforms…what happens?  Hell, Trump maybe would be pulling some more from the Dem side.  Interesting times. 

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 Posted: Fri Jan 21st, 2022 08:01 pm
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srossi
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Papa Voo wrote: Superstar wrote: Honestly everything I read above has solid merit. What I believe is that it really shifted gears during Trump's campaign in 2015. Because it stopped being two parties bickering, it ended up going right down to the normal working class stiffs. When Obama was president, you could walk around my office and not much was talked about politically, and if anything was said, such as "I don't like Obama", it didn't spark up a heated war. When Trump ran, and the campaign hit home with so many average people that felt the government has been letting them down, they all of a sudden became experts when it comes to politics, and if you aren't with Trump, you are dead wrong. So ever since that election, political talks around the office get nasty, heated, and personal. And that's manifested itself in the streets too.

I don't like to get political, I have my opinions on right vs wrong. If I don't agree with you, it doesn't make either one of us a fucking idiot. Yet, sometimes that's how it gets portrayed by these political experts that wouldn't even know where to go to vote before Trump ran. And just so I'm being clear here - I'm not blaming all of the people that follow Trump for this, because the people that hate Trump are even nastier when these arguments break out. It's broken on both sides of the fence because fact of the matter is, NONE OF US truly know what they hell they are doing in the government. And we never will, as they control the entire narrative.


Very good post.  I do not fall in line with all of it, but I definitely can agree with most of it. 

I do not think this all started with Trump’s election. It just got way worse. 

My little wish to rewrite history would be to have Trump run as a third party or Independent.   That really would have been interesting.  I am mean, seriously, come on…the evangelicals aligning themselves with Donald Trump?  what world are we living in?  If Trump does not run as a Republican and embrace the GOP standard platforms…what happens?  Hell, Trump maybe would be pulling some more from the Dem side.  Interesting times.

If Trump ran third party, he'd have a small pocket of loons with some crossover between his current large pocket of loons, but he wouldn't have done any better than Ross Perot in the election and 90% of "Republicans" still kissing his ass today would be telling anyone who would listen what a complete wackjob he is, much as they did in the early days of the primaries before he started to gain steam and FOX News got scared he might actually win.



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 Posted: Fri Jan 21st, 2022 09:23 pm
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Jon Stewart with the Daily show



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 Posted: Fri Jan 21st, 2022 09:28 pm
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srossi wrote: Papa Voo wrote: Superstar wrote: Honestly everything I read above has solid merit. What I believe is that it really shifted gears during Trump's campaign in 2015. Because it stopped being two parties bickering, it ended up going right down to the normal working class stiffs. When Obama was president, you could walk around my office and not much was talked about politically, and if anything was said, such as "I don't like Obama", it didn't spark up a heated war. When Trump ran, and the campaign hit home with so many average people that felt the government has been letting them down, they all of a sudden became experts when it comes to politics, and if you aren't with Trump, you are dead wrong. So ever since that election, political talks around the office get nasty, heated, and personal. And that's manifested itself in the streets too.

I don't like to get political, I have my opinions on right vs wrong. If I don't agree with you, it doesn't make either one of us a fucking idiot. Yet, sometimes that's how it gets portrayed by these political experts that wouldn't even know where to go to vote before Trump ran. And just so I'm being clear here - I'm not blaming all of the people that follow Trump for this, because the people that hate Trump are even nastier when these arguments break out. It's broken on both sides of the fence because fact of the matter is, NONE OF US truly know what they hell they are doing in the government. And we never will, as they control the entire narrative.


Very good post.  I do not fall in line with all of it, but I definitely can agree with most of it. 

I do not think this all started with Trump’s election. It just got way worse. 

My little wish to rewrite history would be to have Trump run as a third party or Independent.   That really would have been interesting.  I am mean, seriously, come on…the evangelicals aligning themselves with Donald Trump?  what world are we living in?  If Trump does not run as a Republican and embrace the GOP standard platforms…what happens?  Hell, Trump maybe would be pulling some more from the Dem side.  Interesting times.

If Trump ran third party, he'd have a small pocket of loons with some crossover between his current large pocket of loons, but he wouldn't have done any better than Ross Perot in the election and 90% of "Republicans" still kissing his ass today would be telling anyone who would listen what a complete wackjob he is, much as they did in the early days of the primaries before he started to gain steam and FOX News got scared he might actually win.


Has there ever been any polling done showing the approx amount of Bush (son) and Obama voters that voted for Trump? 



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 Posted: Sun Jan 23rd, 2022 02:30 am
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It started when the FCC's Fairness Doctrine ended, which was in 1987 iirc. With no requirement to devote editorial time to an opposing viewpoint TV networks devoted more time to people such as Limbaugh and Gingrich who were among the leaders in the movement by the GOP to villify and basically stop just short of dehumanizing their opposition.Add in the so called Christian Right who then attempt cover these acts of douchebaggery with scripture that's misquoted or out of context and then finally throw in a healthy dose of unwarranted fear being fomented by all of the aforementioned ball sacks and you've laid the groundwork for where we are today.



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 Posted: Sun Jan 23rd, 2022 04:07 pm
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There was still consensus on many things, including Supreme Court picks, in the Reagan years. Bitter Old Man surely has it, Gingrich in particular turned that into a political movement.

Another reason is you've not had an existential war in recent years. Jimmy Stewart and Henry Fonda, from the opposite sides of the political spectrum, were friends, in part because Rep v Dem was way less important than Allies v Nazis, in which they had both fought. People have forgotten that now.



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 Posted: Mon Jan 24th, 2022 02:06 am
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kargol wrote: There was still consensus on many things, including Supreme Court picks, in the Reagan years. Bitter Old Man surely has it, Gingrich in particular turned that into a political movement.

Another reason is you've not had an existential war in recent years. Jimmy Stewart and Henry Fonda, from the opposite sides of the political spectrum, were friends, in part because Rep v Dem was way less important than Allies v Nazis, in which they had both fought. People have forgotten that now.
There's a sizeable number of people right now who think we are involved in an existential war right now, the problem is thei enemy is their fellow Americans. You have dimwits calling for "trial by combat" to settle matters and who have suggested "2nd amendment" solutions to issues.

The concept of  "I may disagree with what you say but I would defend to the death your right to say it" is deader than Nixon as well for the most part. The Right has indoctrinated their base to think totally in terms of black and white, with no shades of grey; "if you ain't fer me then yur agin me" that appeals to the well let's call them the cognatively challeneged.

As George Carlin put it "Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups"

Last edited on Mon Jan 24th, 2022 02:17 am by BitterOldMan



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 Posted: Mon Jan 24th, 2022 03:22 am
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BitterOldMan wrote: kargol wrote: There was still consensus on many things, including Supreme Court picks, in the Reagan years. Bitter Old Man surely has it, Gingrich in particular turned that into a political movement.

Another reason is you've not had an existential war in recent years. Jimmy Stewart and Henry Fonda, from the opposite sides of the political spectrum, were friends, in part because Rep v Dem was way less important than Allies v Nazis, in which they had both fought. People have forgotten that now.
There's a sizeable number of people right now who think we are involved in an existential war right now, the problem is thei enemy is their fellow Americans. You have dimwits calling for "trial by combat" to settle matters and who have suggested "2nd amendment" solutions to issues.

The concept of  "I may disagree with what you say but I would defend to the death your right to say it" is deader than Nixon as well for the most part. The Right has indoctrinated their base to think totally in terms of black and white, with no shades of grey; "if you ain't fer me then yur agin me" that appeals to the well let's call them the cognatively challeneged.

As George Carlin put it "Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups"



The cognitively challenged flow in all directions 




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 Posted: Mon Jan 24th, 2022 05:09 am
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I grew up during the Reagan era, so from my point of view there has never been a period when the Republicans and Democrats were NOT at war.

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 Posted: Tue Jan 25th, 2022 11:18 am
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I think it started in the 1964 election when huge numbers of working class white Democrats in the south switched to the Republican party and platform of Barry Goldwater in reaction to Civil Rights laws being written. America's political divide has always been racially motivated.

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 Posted: Tue Jan 25th, 2022 04:28 pm
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retroken wrote: I think it started in the 1964 election when huge numbers of working class white Democrats in the south switched to the Republican party and platform of Barry Goldwater in reaction to Civil Rights laws being written. America's political divide has always been racially motivated.

So you are saying old school White Democrats caused the divide?



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 Posted: Tue Jan 25th, 2022 04:46 pm
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Franchise wrote: BitterOldMan wrote: kargol wrote: There was still consensus on many things, including Supreme Court picks, in the Reagan years. Bitter Old Man surely has it, Gingrich in particular turned that into a political movement.

Another reason is you've not had an existential war in recent years. Jimmy Stewart and Henry Fonda, from the opposite sides of the political spectrum, were friends, in part because Rep v Dem was way less important than Allies v Nazis, in which they had both fought. People have forgotten that now.
There's a sizeable number of people right now who think we are involved in an existential war right now, the problem is thei enemy is their fellow Americans. You have dimwits calling for "trial by combat" to settle matters and who have suggested "2nd amendment" solutions to issues.

The concept of  "I may disagree with what you say but I would defend to the death your right to say it" is deader than Nixon as well for the most part. The Right has indoctrinated their base to think totally in terms of black and white, with no shades of grey; "if you ain't fer me then yur agin me" that appeals to the well let's call them the cognatively challeneged.

As George Carlin put it "Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups"



The cognitively challenged flow in all directions 



Yet which side tends to gravitate believing more in the fantasy of religion? 

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 Posted: Tue Jan 25th, 2022 05:01 pm
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Franchise wrote: retroken wrote: I think it started in the 1964 election when huge numbers of working class white Democrats in the south switched to the Republican party and platform of Barry Goldwater in reaction to Civil Rights laws being written. America's political divide has always been racially motivated.

So you are saying old school White Democrats caused the divide?I think many things caused or are causing the divide, some of which have been mentioned here.But the question was when did the divide start.

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 Posted: Tue Jan 25th, 2022 05:06 pm
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Principal_Raditch wrote: Franchise wrote: BitterOldMan wrote: kargol wrote: There was still consensus on many things, including Supreme Court picks, in the Reagan years. Bitter Old Man surely has it, Gingrich in particular turned that into a political movement.

Another reason is you've not had an existential war in recent years. Jimmy Stewart and Henry Fonda, from the opposite sides of the political spectrum, were friends, in part because Rep v Dem was way less important than Allies v Nazis, in which they had both fought. People have forgotten that now.
There's a sizeable number of people right now who think we are involved in an existential war right now, the problem is thei enemy is their fellow Americans. You have dimwits calling for "trial by combat" to settle matters and who have suggested "2nd amendment" solutions to issues.

The concept of  "I may disagree with what you say but I would defend to the death your right to say it" is deader than Nixon as well for the most part. The Right has indoctrinated their base to think totally in terms of black and white, with no shades of grey; "if you ain't fer me then yur agin me" that appeals to the well let's call them the cognatively challeneged.

As George Carlin put it "Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups"



The cognitively challenged flow in all directions 



Yet which side tends to gravitate believing more in the fantasy of religion? 



Republicans for sure generally speaking however you have plenty of Democrat politicians' & voters that say they attend church regularly. 

If you move beyond organized religion, there are plenty of Culty things on both sides and wild beliefs. 

I'll look it up later today when I have time but there was a study that came out awhile back showing something like the further left a person believes politically the more likely they are to have mental illness. 




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 Posted: Tue Jan 25th, 2022 05:07 pm
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retroken wrote: Franchise wrote: retroken wrote: I think it started in the 1964 election when huge numbers of working class white Democrats in the south switched to the Republican party and platform of Barry Goldwater in reaction to Civil Rights laws being written. America's political divide has always been racially motivated.

So you are saying old school White Democrats caused the divide?I think many things caused or are causing the divide, some of which have been mentioned here.But the question was when did the divide start.

There's always been a divide.  The question is really when the two sides stopped being able to work together on anything, even things that used to be considered non-controversial.



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